Choosing a cartridge for a 3" cannon.

[Zaydok Allen]

Hello friends and neighbors,

I have a thing for 3" revolvers. I've been thinking about 629's as well as Alaskans. However, I only own a 5" 460 magnum at the moment.

I'm curious how the ballistics compare between a 44 mag, a 480 Ruger, and 454 Casull fired from the same length barrel. Ballistics by the Inch has listings for the 44 but not the others.

I'm also curious how the recoil compares between the three.

Anyone ever do a side by side comparison of the three cartridges in the Alaskan revolver?

There is an obvious advantage of the 454 being able to fire 45 colt ammo also, and the 44 being able to shoot specials.

I'm also aware that a short barrel underutilizes the potential of these cartridges. So please don't start telling me what a waste it is. I'm interested in impact energy, penetration, and recoil characteristics on this short barreled model.

My gut tells me the 480 is a superior cartridge for an Alaskan.

 

[MartinS]

My understanding is that a heavy slug loses less energy in a sawed off. Lower velocity than a lighter bullet is more time in the barrel, more time for the powder to burn. Then too, the larger surface area of the base of a larger caliber slug is a bigger piston for pounds per square inch to push on. I'm saying your gut is correct.

 

[ImperatorGray]

Keep in mind that there's more to it than just bullet weight; there's also how quickly the charge sublimates. The higher the round's pressure, the better it should fare in short tube.

.454 Casull has the highest SAAMI max pressure (the .480's next), but of course that doesn't mean whatever loads any particular person will use reach that peak.

Felt recoil is subjective, but for me at least, a 3" .44 Magnum would have considerably less recoil than your 5" .460, whereas a 3" .480 would only have slightly less recoil than the .460 and a 3" 454 would probably have a good 20 percent added recoil over the .460. 'Course, noise and muzzle blast are also big ones!

 

[brickeyee]

If you make the gun small enough and the cartridge large enough you can make the recoil as unpleasant as you want.

Calls to mind things like English 4-bores that knocked over the shooter.

I guess it made it easier for the elephant to trample them.

 

[dickydalton]

I honestly think my scope mounted, 8 3/8" 460 XVR has less recoil than my 44 Mag. Mountain Revolver with full loads.

 

[paul105]

Jeff Quinn - Gunblast.com -- .480 Ruger Alaskan Review -- has chrono results:

http://gunblast.com/Ruger-SRHAlaskan480.htm

Jeff Quinn - Gunblast.com -- .454 Ruger Alaskan Review -- has chrono results:

http://gunblast.com/Ruger-SRHAlaskan454.htm

I didn't reread the articles, so I don't know if comparitive recoil was addressed. My guess is that perceived recoil of the .480 Ruger would would be less than that of the .454. The .454's addl velocity would make recoil "snappier" (just my opinion of course).

With that said I think the .454, because you can use .45 colt ammo, would be the more practical of the two.

Don't know about the .44 Mag Alaskan.

I recently purchased a 2 1/2" Alaskan in .480. Here are some of my results.

First six rounds fired -- 9 yards -- to check POI of different bullet weights:
.

.
Upper left -- 25 yard group shot from rest while chronogrphing -- lower right 3 shot group shot offhand at 12 yds to check POI
.

.
The 385gr FNHP (powder coated).
.

.
Business End of 385gr FNHP:
.

.
Some chrono results: 5 long paces from the muzzle. The 370gr and HSM factory loads were at 40 deg F -- the rest from 65 to 70 deg F.
.
420gr--WFNGC--LBT---WLP---20.1gr H110---Cr Grv---970fps

400gr--FNPBDC--LEE---WLP---22.4gr H110---Btm Cr Grv---858fps
400gr--FNPBDC--LEE---WLP---22.4gr H110---Top Cr Grv---982fps
400gr--FNPBDC--LEE---CCI 350 mag---22.4gr H110---Top Cr Grv---1025fps

400gr--SWC--RCBS---WLP---22.4gr H110---Crimp Gr---1036fps

400gr--SpJSP---HSM---HSMgr HSM---Hsm---855fps

385gr--FNHPPB--MIHA---WLP---22.4gr H110---Top Cr Grv---1054fps (1,250fps from 6" FA M83)
385gr--FNHPPB--MIHA---WLP---22.4gr H110---Btm Cr Grv---1021fps
385gr--FNHPPB--MIHA---WLP---21.3gr H110---Btm Cr Grv---969fps

370gr--RNFP--MASTER CAST---WLP---24.8gr H110---Cr Grv---1098fps
.


NO STICKY EXTRACTION WITH ANY OF THE ABOVE LOADS.

None of the above loads are punishing, at least for me.

FWIW,

Paul

 

[Anmut]

Why not stick with what you already have in caliber and just shorten the barrel to something you can cook hot dogs on.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Smith-Wesson-ES-S-W-Magnum-Emergency-Survival-Tool-Kit/1399071.uts

 

[stoky]

I'd go with your gut.
What's not to like about kurtz .45-70 necked up to .475?
I-net scuttle butt (yeah, I know) has it handloaders are really gassing these up.
Re free bore shooting .45 LCs in .454s is usually not a good thing, but were not really talking bullseye shooting here.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Why not stick with what you already have in caliber and just shorten the barrel to something you can cook hot dogs on.

Well, I like variety. I've always been under the impression that heavier bullets achieve higher velocities and somewhat better performance from a shorter barrel. I looked over the velocities in Jeff Quinn's posts about how they compare, and is interesting data. I'm curious what the penetration characteristics would be. Should the higher velocity of the 454 basically make up for the higher weight of a 480? Obviously a wider wound channel is a good thing when dealing with angry critters.

It's a ballistics comparrison I guess, more than a question of what gun should I buy. I may not buy either.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I'm also wondering the reason for the above pictured rounds being powder coated.

 

[WestKentucky]

Powder coat is a cleaner lube. Shoots like cast lead, dirtys the gun like jacketed

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Ah. I see. Thanks Wk

 

[Jaymo]

I like .454 Casull.
Don't like the recoil of the Casull.
.44 Mag is about as much of a wrist twister as I shoot anymore, and with that, only in my 7.5" Redhawk, Marlin 1894P, and 4" Taurus M44 (last inch of barrel is an expansion chamber compensator).

The wrists and elbows just won't take the pounding anymore. Too many years spent bending wrenches for a living.

 

[Fremmer]

The ability to shoot 45LC might be important out in the sticks.

I wonder about any substantive difference in power between the .480 and the .454 as far as stopping a bear. But y'all in Alaska would know more about that than somebody in kansas, we don't have much of a bear problem here. Not yet, anyway.

Man it would be loud without muffs on. Beats being bear food, though!

 

[Barry the Bear]

Both the 44 mag and 454 casull are proven rounds against not just bear but even the african giants, Not to sure about the .480 but I wouldnt count it out.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Trying to compare apples to apples -- here's how they stack up with approximately the same weight bullet:

.480 Ruger 325 gr XTP 1,350 ft/s 1,315 ft/lbs
.454 Casul 325 gr XTP 1,350 ft/s 1,315 ft/lbfs
.44 Magnum 320 gr WFNGC 1,300 ft/s 1,201 ft/lbs

 

[ImperatorGray]

I've always been under the impression that heavier bullets achieve higher velocities and somewhat better performance from a shorter barrel.

I think you're right that, all else being equal, a heavier bullet should suffer less from being fired out a shorter tube. The reason is that the heavier bullet has more inertia, so it takes longer to get up to speed and leave the barrel. The extra time that it "plugs" the barrel is extra time for the powder to burn in the barrel.

The way short barrels lose power is by letting the bullet leave the tube before as much of the powder is burned. So the heavier bullet giving the powder more time is a good thing.

But all else is not always equal, because different types of powder burn at different rates. Say bullet 'A' is half the mass of bullet 'B', but 'A' is backed by a charge that sublimates at four times the rate of that behind 'B'. In that case, 'A' should retain a higher percentage of its power when the barrel's been chopped.

Both the heavier bullet and the faster-burning powder will create a higher peak pressure, which is really just another way of saying the above. Which is why I think you'll be better served taking pressure into account than bullet weight alone.

 

[Field Tester]

Anmut,
What's in the packages in the top of the case?

 

[Macchina]

I'm guessing Space (Mylar) blankets?
Because the only thing louder firing 3" 460 Magnum without hearing protection is trying to sleep with a space blanket.