Choosing a pistol specifically for Production

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atomd

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Sorry in advance for the length of this. I might be over-analyzing but what the heck. I had to sell a lot of guns recently and I didn't leave myself anything that could be used in uspsa production. So now I'm going to get myself one to have some fun with this summer. I've pretty much narrowed it down to 2 choices. The S&W M&P 9mm (possibly the L or the Pro too) or the CZ SP-01. I could consider another 75B instead or an 85 Combat or something which are both guns that I like.

Both guns have their advantages and disadvantages of course. My question is which advantages/disadvantages am I missing as far as parts replacement and general wear and tear go. I reload 9mm and I'll be running a good volume of rounds through this gun. I would like to have replacement spring kits on hand...maybe a lighter recoil spring to use with lighter loads, etc. What other parts should I have on hand for these 2 pistols and what should I expect to have to replace this year?

I like the ergonomics of both pistols and I've shot both of them and shoot them well enough. The SP01 is more expensive and the M&P has a rebate for 2 free mags which makes it even less in the end. The 75b/85 Combat is closer in price with the 85 being more expensive. I like the "every trigger pull is the same" factor on the M&P. That's helpful to me. Some people also don't like that I'd have to manually decock the CZs (I don't want a decocker model). That's probably not ideal but I don't think it's a major issue. The initial trigger pull on the CZ is really long. The CZ seems to really soak up the recoil better than the M&P though and feels almost smoother shooting somehow. Smooth is fast they say. I think it's the extra weight.

Having trigger work done on the CZ is more expensive and I can do a few things to the M&P for less money myself. The M&P seems like it's a bit easier to work on at home. S&W also has a better warranty than CZ. I really like the CZ pistols though. I think I shoot a bit quicker with the CZ than the M&P but I don't have much trigger time on the M&P yet so I can't say that for sure. I've owned a lot of CZ stuff so I just feel more comfortable with them somehow but I'm very willing to give S&W a chance (and the M&P is a bit easier to find holsters and such for too). Any problematic things I should expect with either one of these?
 
Well atomd, I own 2 S&W M&P 9Pros and really, really like them. Honestly, I didnt even try the CZ for a couple of the reasons you mentioned. Although CZ USA is based less than 20 miles from me...lol. I dont like the whole decocking thing. And after shooting a friends for a bit, didnt like the way it felt in my hands with my competition loads. I also tried a friends M&P before I bought it and really, really like the way it felt in my hands. I like that the bore sits farther down in my hand, lets me control recoil just a bit better than anything else I have used, or tried. I havent had one problem with either pistol, although they had a couple issues early on, but they are pretty much non-existent now. I was using a Glock 17 at first and pretty much hated it. I bought the M&P and havent looked back.

Now thats not to say the CZ isnt a great gun. I like them alot, just not for me in a competition gun. I say choose whichever you feel the most comfortable with, and in the end, you will have a great gun no matter which you do choose...


Bass
 
I did a lot of dryfire practice and I plan on doing more to get in some practice with it. Do you guys dry fire your M&Ps a lot? I normally do use snap caps when possible. Any issues I should be aware of with the M&P and dry firing? I hear they had some issues with strikers breaking and kept redesigning the striker...which may have fixed that.

I guess I'm looking at the regular model (maybe the L if it's the same price) unless I can find a really good deal on a pro. I hear a lot of issues about the extractor on the pro though...there's a long thread about it with lots of people reporting problems on the m&p forum which makes me nervous. I'm definitely leaning a bit towards the M&P though. I priced out everything and it's about $200 less which is just about the cost of reloading 2k rounds of 9mm for me.

I think the internet forums make every little issue look like a bigger issue than it is...but it at least makes you wonder. Thanks for the input guys.
 
Before you posted this last reply, based on your OP, I thought the M&P would likely work out better for you.

I test fired the M&P and the CZ, in 9mm: they both shot well and felt good to inexperienced me. I slightly preferred the CZ grip and the way it returned to point of aim. But that was in my hands, with the ammo then available.

Truth be told, that same afternoon, I test fired 20 rounds out of each of the following, courtesy of nearby IPSC club members:
M&P 9mm
CZ SP-01 9mm
Glock 17
Xd 357
Colt 1911 45
Para Ord 40
STI 2011 38super (way out of my league but WOW)
HK ?
Sig P226 9mm

These guns were all very nice. The M&P was my 2nd favourite. I bought a CZ.

Enjoy your M&P and come back to tell us how it plays out for you.
 
Most people that enjoy their CZ are shooting it single action only, totally ignoring/bypassing the long, hard and gritty DA pull. This can be addressed with a good action job, but the M&P trigger can be made verrrrrrrrrrry nice. I like the way www.accurate-iron.com does it. Rivals even the best 1911 trigger. Get the M&P Pro.

In Production Division, the CZ's can be found if you look long enough, but the M&P is storming the division something fierce. The Glock will always be there, but before long, it'll be those two and virtually nothing else.
 
I also have seen the internet forums with people and their tales of woe about dry firing, striker breakage and extractor problems. Just remember, for every one person saying that, there are probably 30 others that havent had one issue with theirs. I have two, and have fired one of them over 20k rounds, and havent had so much as a FTF, FTE, or any striker breakage. I dry fire mine all the time while practicing at home as well. I do not use snap caps. Go with the M&P if you think you might like it, or the CZ if you think you might like it better. Remember, buy twice, cry twice...

Bass
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I'm going to forget that stuff I read and start looking at the pro I think. I was just quoted $100 more for the pro model which isn't too bad. I'd like to find someone who has it in stock to handle it first of course though (so far I've called 5 shops and no one has one). I still have a few weeks to decide before the rebate ends on them anyways. Hopefully I can locate one...I don't normally like buying something like that sight unseen when I haven't handled the exact model before.
 
I would take the CZ because I am heavily biased. It was the first handgun I bought(when you could get a CZ cheap) and I wasn't able to afford much else for awhile so I got good at shooting it. If you shoot the CZ from cocked and locked then you have the same trigger pull all the time also. Which begs the question why de-cock unless you have the BD model 75 in which case half-cock is basically your safety.

The price point CZ is at currently and the offer from S&W does make a dang good case for the M&P. Save you enough money for a holster or something like that.
 
If you shoot the CZ from cocked and locked then you have the same trigger pull all the time also.
Click to expand...

Production rules would require manually lowering the hammer on a CZ w/manual safety so the first shot is DA. That first trigger pull is verrry long starting from hammer down. On some CZ models (depending on which trigger shape/style) I almost find myself changing my grip a bit because the trigger is so far forward on the DA pull when compared to the SA pull. Maybe I have somewhat short fingers or something.
 
Both are pretty cool guns. the M&P is great because of the adjustable backstraps and there is getting to be more and more parts for the. Apex just released their sear.

I have tried both and I like the CZ better, but that is a pretty personal choice. it definitely needs an action job ( which I learned to do my own)
 
Worldwide the CZ SP-01 Shadow is the winningest pistol in IPSC Production. The M&P Pro works well in IDPA but for IPSC or USPSA I would go with the SP-01 Shadow. If you are serious about USPSA then the price difference between the two pistols should not even be a consideration. Over a couple of years you will spend way more money on ammo and travelling then you will on the pistol.

Take Care

Bob
 
I was forced to pick between these 2 myself and eventually wound up with the CZ because the kadet 22 kit makes practice so cheap.
 
robertbank said:
Worldwide the CZ SP-01 Shadow is the winningest pistol in IPSC Production. The M&P Pro works well in IDPA but for IPSC or USPSA I would go with the SP-01 Shadow.
Click to expand...
OK, looks like a good choice for USPSA.

However, a genuine question here regarding IDPA: Is the CZ SP-01 Shadow even legal for IPDA? IDPA SSP class is limited to 39 ozs. The CZ website page for the CZ SP-01 Shadow says it weighs 2.6 lbs, which converts to 41.6 oz. I've always had the impression that the CZ's were borderline on the weight limit for IDPA. Will it meet the weight limits?
 
SP01 and SP01 Shadow need to change out some of the factory parts to lighter factory parts and change the grips to meet 39 oz. SSP weight.

once that is done, good to go.
 
To make weight you have to get the Shadow down to 39oz. To do so buy Dennis Marshal thin grips for the gun (.4oz) and replace the mag brake with one meant for the 75B - you have to cut out notches out of the mag break where the grips pushing piece extends out from the frame. With those two changes your gun, with 10 rd mags will weigh 39oz or slightly less and be good to go for IDPA.

Mine just meets the weight limit now, though I prefer the CZ 85 Combat for IDPA and use the Shadow for USPSA.

Take Care

Bob
 
I am not going to argue you with you Bob (being its like winning the special olympics), but while your info is correct, saying that the M&P isnt a good choice because their are more winners using the CZ is just plain snobbish. I know several M's and GM's shooting M&Ps and they have done just fine. I cant shoot well with the CZ to save my life, and I own one. Sometimes you should just go with what feels better, and you shoot better with. If I remember correctly you can switch guns anytime you wish in your USPSA career. Not to mention that I dont think he will start out competing for a national title. I could be wrong though...lol.


Bass
 
I didn't say the M&P was a lessor choice because the CZ wins more. Th M&P is a great LEO gun and works well in IDPA. It is lighter and can be drawn faster by most mortals which is more of an advantage in IDPA where stages are relatively short compared to IPSC/USPSA. The Shadow certainly will control recoil better than the M&P. The gun is heavier and heavier guns provide less felt recoil back to the shooter. Too, the Shadow has more weight in the front end thus helping to dampen muzzle flip.

What I didn't say and should have is buying a gun based upon what the top shooters shoot is probably the worst reason to buy a gun. Buy the gun you like the most and feels right for you would be my advice.

I love my M&P but it won't shoot with the CZ in terms of accuracy. Both are outstanding when it comes to reliability. If you like Polymer the M&P is a good choice. If you like steel the CZ line work very well.

Take Care

Bob
 
I like my CZ-75B. I use it in Production division just fine. Between it and the XDm 9, I like the CZ better. It seems to point more naturally for me.

As far as trigger pull, it is a bit longer. But, I like the positive feel of the take up and the crisp break.
 
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