Clay shooting for the young and unsupported

[Atticum]

I scored and pulled targets for a clay shooting tournament this weekend. I had never seen clay shooting before. The Nashville Clay Target Complex is incredible. A few people let me shoot their shotguns and I was really impressed with just how much fun it was.

I left with the impression that clay shooting is something fun to do with friends, family and my fiance- more so than rifle target shooting or handgun ranges.

I heard memberships are extremely pricey, and a single outing w/o membership is about $50-60/person. Not cheap compared to a $10 range fee.

I looked up a few models that people let me shoot (Perazzi MX 2000, Turkish walnut Berettas, etc.. all O/U). They were all in the $10-$15K++ range.

Are there shotguns, say an over/under, without the engraving and handfitting that will feel and shoot similarly to what I was shooting?

How affordable are they? What are the entry-level base costs like?

Am I still going to like to shoot something considerably cheaper now that I've shot some of the nicer stuff?

Just wondering if this is something I can start now while I'm young but limited in static costs.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Are there shotguns, say an over/under, without the engraving and handfitting that will feel and shoot similarly to what I was shooting?

Find an Academy store if they have them out there and look at the Turkish Yildiz line of shotguns. O/U in the $400-500 range. Pretty decent shotguns for the money, I bought one in 20ga a few years ago and I've been very happy with it for occasional clay busting.

 

[ArmedBear]

I heard memberships are extremely pricey, and a single outing w/o membership is about $50-60/person.

I pay $35/year for a membership, and $5 per round of skeet. At another nearby range, a round of 5-stand $8.75, and $20 pays for a run through the Sporting Clays course, no memberships. Just as with golf, you don't have to play at the most expensive country club in the state.

Are there shotguns, say an over/under, without the engraving and handfitting that will feel and shoot similarly to what I was shooting?

How affordable are they? What are the entry-level base costs like?

Absolutely. The Beretta White Onyx Sporting runs about $1900 new (a bit less if you look around enough). It shoots pretty much like any other Beretta; it just doesn't have any pictures of birds on it. A 682 Gold E Sporting, which is a serious Beretta competition gun, runs around $3700 new, and again a bit better if you really shop. And I picked up a gently used one, with additional extended chokes over and above the 5 it comes with, in a nice Beretta hard case with a combo lock, for $2300.

http://www.berettausa.com/shop-by-department/victory-shooter/guns/overandunders/

NIB Berettas typically retail for 15% under MSRP, but I've found them for a good deal less, on sale. That can take a while.

Here's a used SP II Sporting 32" for $1500 shipped: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=217182

Look around here: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=69

For a bit less, you can find SKBs -- but they are currently in a production hiatus, so I'm not sure if you can order one still. http://www.skbshotguns.com/ Geometry is similar to the Italian guns you liked.

A good bargain right now is the Lanber 2097 Sporting Lux (made in Basque Spain, as are a number of other good guns). CDNN has them in the $650 to $700 range. Lanbers are pretty nice guns, and a genuine deal for this price.

However, if you liked the Perazzis and Berettas, I'd suggest looking for quality guns with similar feel and balance, without excess adornment, like the WO Sporting. I have a couple of WO field guns, and the wood on them is pretty nice. The $15,000 models do have even nicer wood, but they shoot just about the same.

 

[Atticum]

I've only looked at CDNN once, and now that I think of it, they had a ton of sporting shotguns. I think I'll keep my eyes open.

Here's what I found re: pricing

Type..............Membership/month......Trap & Skeet/round..........Sporting Clays/round
Individual................$25.00.....................$4.50............................$31.00

Not too bad... I was working on the sporting clays section. There was a trail that squads went down, something different at each station. That's what I liked about it.

I don't know what trap and skeet looks like.

 

[ArmedBear]

$25/month and SC is still $31/round?

Where is this place? Right downtown or something?

There are places that cost a few grand per year, but they tend to have locked gates, few members, and game-farm birds to "hunt" on the property. If you want to shoot skeet with your friends, you go, unlock the gate, and shoot skeet by yourselves if you want.

Seriously, if it's a really nice club with a good environment, nice equipment, a good "vibe", etc., that's not prohibitive. However, there are cheaper ways to work on your skills, if you want to keep costs to a minimum. Only you know what your preferred tradeoff is.

 

[Atticum]

as a matter of fact, it is right downtown.

It takes me 8 minutes to get there and I live on one of the biggest streets in Nashville.

 

[kostyanj]

There's a trap club near my house, I pay $150 per year and $4 for a round of 25. Non-members pay $7 per round. So I've done the math and it's much more economical for me to pay the membership.

 

[Snarlingiron]

Type..............Membership/month......Trap & Skeet/round..........Sporting Clays/round
Individual................$25.00.....................$4.50............................$31.00

It really depends on your area. Around here that is a bargain, and I would jump on it in a minute. I just shot a round of sporting clays yesterday, and with tax, etc. it was $48.00. Golf cart is another $10.00 per passenger. Add your shells and travel expense (about an hour's drive for me) and a round of sporting clays is ~ $100.00.

There is another club where I shoot that is considerably less, a round of sporting clays is $38.00, and yet another that is $32.00, but it is about 75 miles each way.

So, yep, for me that is a bargain.

 

[ArmedBear]

It takes me 8 minutes to get there and I live on one of the biggest streets in Nashville.

I'd jump right on it, then. You're paying a bit more for membership than you would outside the city, but you'll save that and more in time and gas. Furthermore, the closer it is, the more you can take advantage of your membership. $25/month sounds well worth it, all things considered.

I just wouldn't want someone to be discouraged by the price.

 

[Atticum]

Thanks, guys. I was pleasantly surprised by the membership fee.

Now about that Beretta White Onyx Sporting...

 

[nitetrane98]

Am I still going to like to shoot something considerably cheaper now that I've shot some of the nicer stuff?

Only if you hit the birds!!

To use an old biker phrase, "Chrome won't get you home."

The fancy engraving and beautiful wood doesn't mean a thing to the clays.

I tag along occasionally with a buddy who is a sandbagging master shooter.
A lot of the guys that shoot the Perrazi's, Kreighoffs and such are generally pretty well heeled. It's kind of like a BBQ pistol that gets used. In my experience they rarely, if ever, win the match. My buddy's money gun is a well used Browning 425.

I know you asked about OU shotguns, and while that's what most of the big boys win with, it's certainly not written in stone anywhere that you have to use one. I know some very good clay shooters who use pumps and semis.
General consensus with my friends who shoot is that the OU will stand up to the round count, that can be accumulated in pretty short order, better than the other types. That and the easily changed chokes for each different station.

It's a great sport. I wish I could shoot more but a left shoulder injury just won't stand for it. I'd say to shoot for the fun of the sport and don't worry too much about the equipment. Don't fall into the trap of blaming your gun for a missed bird.

 

[Atticum]

From what I've seen the Browning 425 is in the $1500 range.

It will, of course, be a while before I buy anything, but I'm thinking 20ga, maybe 12. I want something I know my fiancee will be able to shoot.

 

[UKShooter]

Its a fun sport, really popular over here in the UK.

There are plenty of guns that are more reasonable. Don't forget to check 2nd hand ones too, an OU shotgun is pretty hard to break so even quite an old one will serve you well.

I would recommend checking out a Brand called Miroku. I had a Miroku MK38 Sporting for a while and it was great and very affordable. Miroku are actually owned by Browning and are made in the same factory as the considerably more expensive Browning OU's.

Another good gun to look for 2nd hand is the Beretta 686 series. They are very nice entry level guns and quite affordable.

Your wife should be ok with a 12g since you will only be shooting 7 1/2, 8 and 9 shot which is pretty light kicking.

-Paul

 

[oneounceload]

Are there shotguns, say an over/under, without the engraving and handfitting that will feel and shoot similarly to what I was shooting?

Probably not...HOWEVER, there are a lot of guns that aren't too bad at all. There's a reason those 10-15K guns cost what they do, and it's not all about wood and engraving. But there are guns good enough.

You might want to consider a Beretta 391 gas gun as a first one - even used. They will be a little easier on the wallet. Otherwise an d entry level Browning or Beretta TARGET gun will work very well - key is getting the one that fits you the best.

Welcome to a fun addiction

 

[ArmedBear]

You seriously think a Jubilee Sporting shoots any better than a base-model DT-10 or a 682 Gold E?

While a $5K competition gun will generally perform a lot better than a $500 gun, there are different reasons that guns go above the $10K mark. Not all of them make a difference in one's score.

Perazzi starts out with pretty plain-looking guns, and you can have them dolled up really nicely, for an exponentially-rising price. They shoot the same.

You do have to pay attention to the REASON for the price.

 

[oneounceload]

A DT-10 is about 8,000 nowadays, the Perazzi (plain) about 8-10,000; the plain Kreighoff is over 10, and, IIRC, the Kolar is also over 10 without the sub-gauge tube set. The 682 is not the same system as the DT-10. The SO series are not either.

I won't even begin to compare a Stevens 311 to the likes of an AyA #2 or a DMB round action.

It comes down to what you want - if you want a gun, an O/U or SxS, that will shoot reliably for a long time, then 8-10K for a good comp gun isn't out of this world - not any more.

 

[ArmedBear]

I didn't say it was. What I said was, if you care about the money, you need to look at what a particular model's price means.

The Jubilee is a highly-embellished 682. If you shoot a $15,000 Beretta, and it's a Jubliee Sporting, you can pick up a gun that will feel the same in the hands, and last as long, for $3750. Will it have the same engraving, carving, wood grade, etc.? No. Do I appreciate a beautiful shotgun? Yes. But will the Jubilee shoot better? No.

That's all I was saying: with some homework, you can get high-level performance without paying $10K extra for aesthetic embellishment -- which is what the OP originally asked.

 

[oneounceload]

Very true - but my point was that the 8-10K serious comp guns are rarely "embellished" at that price - you're paying for the reliability factor, balance, handling qualities, etc. that those guns come with. To a new shooter are they readily apparent? Most likely not......to a serious competitor - yes they are. Every edge that means one more dead bird can be the difference between winning and losing a match. Those folks buy those guns (and others whoa re wealthy wannabees! )

 

[nitetrane98]

From what I've seen the Browning 425 is in the $1500 range.

Yes it is and the only reason I mentioned it was to illustrate that you don't need a 10k gun to be competitive, if that's of any concern at all. Being old and living on retirement is in many ways a lot like being young and unsupported, (if you mean by that "poor as a church mouse"). I feel your pain!!!

Since responding to your post I've been looking around at a lot of, what might be considered, entry level OU's. I have a bit of a history of jumping into any new endeavor with both feet and finding that it really wasn't all that great or didn't hold my interest, or I found out I really actually sucked at it regardless of the price of the equipment and how much I practiced. A certain set of fitted PING professional grade golf clubs comes immediately to mind.

Anyway. Nowdays I find that it is more economical for me to ease into things and use the savings for things like ammo and range time.

Regardless of what they shoot, most of my buddies who shoot clays all agree that the personal fit of a shotgun is likely the most important factor in whether or not one shoots well with it. Naturally, there are flys in that ointment too. Without knowing what a really well fit, (to you) shotgun feels like, one is kind of stuck with, "Well, that feels good, I guess."

I think I'm going to check out a Remington/Baikal SPR 310 for feel. Looks like a good starter clay gun for around 400 bucks. Will it hold up for 10K rounds a year, probably not, (or at least not many years) but I can unequivically say that I could not afford to shoot that many rounds anyway, including range fees, etc.

I might be tempted to look at 20ga too.

 

[oneounceload]

Regardless of what they shoot, most of my buddies who shoot clays all agree that the personal fit of a shotgun is likely the most important factor in whether or not one shoots well with it. Naturally, there are flys in that ointment too. Without knowing what a really well fit, (to you) shotgun feels like, one is kind of stuck with, "Well, that feels good, I guess."

One thing that can help - go to the local club and rent or borrow as many different guns as you can, especially from folks about your size - and shoot them. A good feeling gun you can't shoulder properly or is showing too muych rib isn't going to work for you.

 

[ArmedBear]

Also, when you're ready to buy something, look at the gun club bulletin board. There are some people who sell competition guns with very little use, at a pretty decent discount, for one reason or another.

There's really not much that matters in life, that can't happen at the shotgun range.

 

[Atticum]

haha, ArmedBear- nice. I've already noticed a few for sale on the club board.

Thanks guys. nitretrane- I hear you on the jumping with two feet thing. My problem with shooting is that I jump in and then don't get to shoot near as much as I'd want to!

I was very lucky to be able to shoot several different shotguns at the tournament. Too bad they are all completely unaffordable! I suppose it would be hard to shoulder ANY $15,000 shotgun and not think that it feels great.

 

[swmp9jrm]

I've just taken up trap. Bought a new Browning BPS Trap 12ga for $630. From all accounts, this is a pretty good first shotgun, and I enjoy shooting it. This might not be the best gun for sporting clays as it is a pump gun. I guess there are a lot of folks using pumps for SC, but an O/U or Semi-Auto would probably be more practical.

The REAL cost for shooting clays of all types is the cost of ammunition - even using the cheapest REM Gun Club shells is $5-8 (depending on whether you can find them on sale) per box. Then you've got the shooting fees. I belong to a club, and it's $3.50 a round for trap singles. Another club is $4.50 for non-members. So the cost per round, aside from your shotgun, ends up about $9-13. Sporting clays will run you $25 per 100 in fees, and then add in the $20-$25 for the four boxes of shells.

I usually shoot 3-4 trap rounds on a weekend, so the costs start to add up. This resulted in me investing in a shotshell reloader, and I'm hoping to cut the ammo costs by a reasonable percentage.

So I'm spending about the same as a regular golfer would be, and I honestly REALLY like my trap shooting better than my golf!!

 

[clang]

You can start in Trap/Clays/Skeet with almost any decent shotgun. Longer barrels and heavier guns are preferred because they swing steadier and soak up more recoil, but if you are not planning on shooting several rounds a day, a decent hunting gun will get you started just fine.

On the low end - purchase a decent pump shotgun - a used Rem 870 with at least 28" barrels and screw in chokes would be ideal. A Mossberg or even Maverick would also do the trick.

In the $500-800 range, a used Beretta AL390 would be a good choice. I've got one with a 30" barrel that is a great shooter. Win Super X2 or Browning Gold are other choices.

Around $1K you can gat a decent O/U - I would stick with a used Beretta or Browning as they appear to have the best resale value if/when you plan to step up. I prefer the Beretta, but Browning Citori Fields guns tend to be heavier (a plus on the range).

If I was going to buy any of these guns used, I would look for Field guns instead of Sporting guns - they tend to have a lot less wear and tear. "Sporting" guns also get purchased by hunters - so they can be found in good shape too. The used Trap guns are usually the most beat up. I actually prefer a flatter shooting gun (I bird hunt) so field /Sporting Clay guns are my preference even for Trap.

If you look hard enough, and know what you are looking for, there can be found sone great deals on good sporting guns. I bought a like new Beretta 682 Gold (pre-E) in a Beretta hard case for $1200 from Gander Mountain. It had been sitting on the used rack for weeks.

 

[Tim the student]

If the fit of all guns to me were equal, I personally would go with a Caeser Guerini. The wood to metal and the finish of all that I have looked at have been better than B guns that I personally have looked at. There are also other things that I like about them, such as their Pitstop program, excellent warranty, and free custom fitting. There are many others on this board who know far, far more than I do about higher end shotguns though (well, know more about all shotguns really ).

Also, it may be wise to remember that its the shooter behind the shotgun that makes the clays break, not the shotgun. A good shooter will be able to run 100 straight with an 870, where I most certainly could not, even with a gun that cost more than my house. If the gun doesn't fit you, you won't shoot it well.

http://www.gueriniusa.com/