Clays & .45acp

[Gravedigger56]

I just picked up a bottle of Clays powder and I have some Hornady 230 gr. FMJ RN bullets. None of my manuals shows Clays listed under 230 gr. bullets. The Hodgdon data sheet shows 3.7 min. - 4.0 max.

I have an appointment to go log some 9mm reloads this Wed. and thought I might load up some .45's as well to take. Anyone care to share a good recipe for these 2 components to help me out? Thanks.

 

[TfflHndn]

I go 4.0 grains, but load a bit longer than the Hodgdon sample load, at 1.225 COAL. I like Clays better for lead (coated) 200 grain bullets than for FMJs. I use it a lot along with Red Dot for competition.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

^ Remarkably soft shooting.

 

[Gravedigger56]

I was advised that 4.0 probably wouldn't cycle a heavy 5" slide and that I should bump it up to 4.4 gr.

 

[TfflHndn]

You may want to change out your recoil spring if you shoot soft loads. What are you shooting from? Commander/compact springs are often heavier than full-size, and you can often go lighter on the spring if you are regularly shooting softer loads. See Wilson Combat's page on springs: http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/1911/a-guide-to-1911-recoil-springs-by-wilson-combat/

Tweaking bullet weight and powder is only one of the factors that go into finding the right load. The spring makes a difference too, and you may not be able to get the same operation from factory or full house loads and light target loads with a single spring. They're cheap, so get a few different weights and try them out.

 

[Gravedigger56]

You may want to change out your recoil spring if you shoot soft loads. What are you shooting from? Commander/compact springs are often heavier than full-size, and you can often go lighter on the spring if you are regularly shooting softer loads. See Wilson Combat's page on springs: http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/1911/a-guide-to-1911-recoil-springs-by-wilson-combat/

Tweaking bullet weight and powder is only one of the factors that go into finding the right load. The spring makes a difference too, and you may not be able to get the same operation from factory or full house loads and light target loads with a single spring. They're cheap, so get a few different weights and try them out.

I will be using a stainless 5" S&W 1911. For now all I'm looking for is a good load for general target shooting at the range. Clays was recommended to me as a great powder for .45acp so I was a little surprised when I was told that even the max. load data probably wouldn't be enough to cycle a 5" stainless slide and that I should go .4gr. over max.

Had I known this beforehand, I would have just stayed with Titegroup or my Power Pistol which seem more suited for .45acp.

 

[slickracer]

4.0 grains of Clays behind a 200 LSWC runs my Range Officer just fine.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

I was advised that 4.0 probably wouldn't cycle a heavy 5" slide and that I should bump it up to 4.4 gr.

Clays has a very narrow load range. It would be unwise to go to 4.4 Gr.

I'm confident 4.0 Gr with a 230 Gr bullet would cycle a slide on a 5" 1911 Government, just fine.

I've used that load in a couple of 1911(s), including one with a heavier recoil spring.

 

[LyleC]

I like useing Clays for target shooting. 3.8 grs of clays with a 230 gr bullet runs my 1911s with 16# springs.

like RugerOldArmy as said its unwise to go to 4.4

 

[Gravedigger56]

Good. Thanks for the info.

 

[JDGray]

I use 3.9gr with 230gr fmj bullets, cycles every 45 I've tried them in Accurate, and very soft shooting load, great for introducing new shooters.
9mm clays loads are very under powered, and require a good solid hold to cycle my G19, no margin for error or you will stove pipe. Again, great powder for beginners to learn the basics.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Try some of the 4.0 Gr of Clays and 230 FMJ's.

I believe it is a load most every hand loader should try for .45 ACP.

It is remarkably soft shooting, because it is a very fast powder, and in combination with a heavy for caliber bullet. This is the combination that produces the least recoil, in my experience.

Recoil is never positive. It may be fun occasionally, but it isn't good.

Less recoil helps you get that sight on the target for a second shot quickly.

The only downside of this load, is the need for accurate metering, due to the narrow charge range.

In a 5" Govt. 1911, it produces a velocity that is usually accurate as well.

I'd consider this to be a good practice, action pistol competition, or reduced recoil load.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

FWIW, Clays meters better than it looks like it should meter.

Just be careful, throwing several test powder drops. If you get a variance, aim for a point where some drops are 3.9 Gr and the rest 4.0 Gr.

 

[Ccctennis]

I use clays for my xdm competition. I started at 3.7 and my gun cycles fine. I bumped up to 4.0 and it like it. I also would be careful going up to 4.4 as the window is very small. I'm headed to the range today and will be using up my last box of 45 with clays.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I was advised that 4.0 probably wouldn't cycle a heavy 5" slide and that I should bump it up to 4.4 gr.

I don't know who told you that but I am sure that's not true. Even the starting charge weight of Clays will reliably cycle the slide on a 1911. As for someone telling you to up the charge from the max of 4.0gr to 4.4gr, DO NOT DO THAT! Adding a full 10% to the max of a very fast powder like Clays is not a safe practice.

I'm not a fan of vary fast powders like Clays but it does work well in the 45 Auto. It generates accurate and clean ammo so just load some up and give them a try instead of trusting a person who tells you to increase the max charge by 10%. (did I mention not to do that? lol)

 

[RugerOldArmy]

I'm not a fan of vary fast powders like Clays but it does work well in the 45 Auto.

I wouldn't recommend Clays to a beginner reloader.

That said, carefully creating a load with it, makes a wonderful special-purpose reduced recoil or competition load in .45 ACP.

It takes no special equipment to notice how soft shooting it is compared to Bullseye or W231...and Bullseye is only a few spots slower in the powder burn rate charts. Loads of 231 or Bullseye at the same speeds have noticeably more recoil.

I give 231 and Bullseye the nod for marginally better accuracy though.

Clays isn't for freshman reloaders. Maybe sophomore or junior reloaders.

Based on seeing many of your posts, I'd put you in the 'Senior' category ArchAngel. Thanks for backing my play.

 

[TfflHndn]

I think ArchAngel is one of the few in this forum who are "Emeritus" scholars.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

+1 RCModel too.

Only a few levels above.

Next:

- Ken Waters

Then

- Elmer Keith / PO Ackley

 

[JDGray]

I load on a Lee turret press, and the .57cc disc throws 3.9gr very consistently. I'd put using clays powder, as Safe as any in that reloading platform.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I think ArchAngel is one of the few in this forum who are "Emeritus" scholars.

That is very kind of you to say. Thank you...

 

[Gravedigger56]

Thanks for all the replies and advice. Greatly appreciate it.

I must say I am a little disappointed with the advice given to me from the original source. This person is highly respected on several forums and is considered quite an expert with the .45/1911 platform & Clays, with many years experience and so I thought their recommendation would be solid and trustworthy.

 

[JDGray]

A good rule of thumb is to use a powder that if double charged, will spill out of the case. Clays is not one of those powders! You could easily double charge and not spill out. An auto indexing press is a must, or be extra careful if your press doesn't have that feature.