!@#$% Clinton!

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p35

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Someone pointed me to this site as a good source for diagrams of the P35, which it has, but of course the firearms for sale caught my eye as well.

http://www.marstar.ca/Norinco/pistols.htm

$236 US for a new Norinco 1911A1! But of course, they can't sell them in the US due to the Clinton restrictions on Chinese firearms.

Don't know what my point is, just sharing the frustration...
 
My daughter says it's healthy to "vent". She doesn't want me to help all the time; just listen.

We're here for you.

Lone Star
 
That's funny, because I don't normally look at the Norincos, I usually check out other brands when I'm thinking about future purchases but today I started REALLY looking at the 1911's and how good they were. Made me mad. Also made me mad when I remembered that I sold my Norinco MAK-90 for a not-so-good price a few years ago.

From what I understand, the import ban is forever, unless we get another Executive Order that overturns it?

"Stroke of the Pen. Law of the land. Kinda Cool."

--Paul Begala, Top Clinton White House Advisor
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:banghead:
 
From what I understand, the import ban is forever, unless we get another Executive Order that overturns it?
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EO's are instructions only to other branches of the federal government. So, yes, another EO could reverse it -- or we just get rid of the BATFE entirely. No BATFE, nobody to enforce the import restrictions.

Well, US customs I suppose -- but it'd take another EO for that to happen.

Does anybody know the reasoning behind this EO? Just to tick us gunnies off or is there a serious amount of cash going into China from firearms?
 
Have to say I think he is right. Clinton was getting serious $$$ from China. Heck he warned the gun runners who were bringing in full auto to ATF raid that was planned.
 
Clinton had nothing to do with it.
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Slick banned all Norinco HANDGUNS back in 96 or 97 IIRC, still allowing useful things like "Hunting" weapons and a shipload of fully automatic AK47's mfg'd by Norinco in. They did manage to stop the AK's.
GWB banned ALL Norinco Imports for 24 months due to sales of missle technology.
 
Well, since the Red Chinese want to destroy us, (saying that hasn't been "PC" since Reagan left office) I would be all for banning import of anything made in China. They get high tech from us (can you say ICBM innards?) and they pay for it with $$ from the cheap junk we buy from them...not good. It's not a gun thing, buy a used Norinco.
 
This is what they found at the 1911 Forum about it.

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77146

Bush didn't ban the weapons... Clinton did, indefinitely. Bush banned everything else for two years to punish them for selling war materials to Iraq and Iran. So, Bush did it to discipline China, Bubba did it to punish us.

Norinco ban politics

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The Norinco "Model of the 1911A1" was first imported into the US in '90/'91 and the importation was stopped in '95 by an Executive Order issued by Clinton, the order was for all handguns, miliary look-alike rifles and ammunition produced by Norinco (North China Heavy Industries).

At the time of the EO several things had happened both here in the US and in China that were causing Clinton some concerns; the word that the PRC had spent a lot of money on his presidental race (and his pockets too, I'll wager); the chance the PRC/PLA would have exclusive use of the Port of Long Beach; the smuggling in of several sea conainers of real, honest to Mao AK-47s that were destined for the various gangs in LA and other American cities through the parts of the port that the PRC already had use of and human rights violation in China. Clinton needed to do something that would make the American public think that he was doing something about the PRC's violations, the Port of Long Beach deal that he favored and to divert questions on the $$ that were received. The EO made anti-gunners happy since the evil military guns were not being imported, it made Clinton's people happy since it made him look as if he was doing something, it made the HR people happy since he was "showing the PRC" that human rights violations would not be tolerated and it did not upset the flow of cash from the US to China and back to 1600 PA. Avenue. The firearms importation was but a verry, verry small part of the total amount of goods produced by Norinco and exported to the US. Norinco or North China Heavy Industries is the largest manufacturing company in the world, producing everything from shoes thru heavy machinery (and military arms and munitions). Clinton's EO has no expiraion date and will remain in effect until it is recinded by another EO.

Bush issued a 2 year EO banning all Norinco products from importation after China was found to be shipping missiles to Iran/Iraq. When that EO expires everything, but the Clinton banned items, will be allowed in the country again.
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Well, since the Red Chinese want to destroy us, (saying that hasn't been "PC" since Reagan left office) I would be all for banning import of anything made in China. They get high tech from us (can you say ICBM innards?) and they pay for it with $$ from the cheap junk we buy from them...not good. It's not a gun thing, buy a used Norinco.
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So now youre anti gun?

I know for a FACT that Chinese people dont hate Americans. In fact most of them are rather fond of us and they definatly respect us. Dont confuse the nonsense we all learned form the cold war era with reality. Ive BEEN to China, im engaged to a CHINESE woman, her CHINESE family adores me. When i went to China women hit on me, men put thier arms around my shoulder to signifiy brotherhood and children tried to grab my chest and leg hair because it was so forign to them. They especially loved my money. Funny part was that i didnt have to spend a dollar except on frivilous crap for my family back home.. everything else, food, bedding, taxis, clothes, personal gifts etc etc were all purchased for me by Chinese friends and future family whom id met that week.
 
Also the HEAVY majority of Chinese people detest communism, read up on Pro Democracy demonstrations in china.
 
From what I understand, the import ban is forever, unless we get another Executive Order that overturns it?
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I believe that's the case, and I doubt we're going to see it from Bush. I really wish the man would do SOMETHING for gun rights nowadays.
 
NICELY DONE, Baba Louie. ALL The information, BOTH sides of it.
Let's it stand on its own two feet, rather than the blatantly partisan PARTIAL information being foisted.
 
Billy the Kid,

No offense meant whatsoever to the Chinese people. I was refering to their oppressive government only (that's why I said "Red" to mean their govt. as opposed to just saying "Chinese"). If I was talking about Cuba I would mean Castro's regime, not the Cuban people who want freedom as well. I'm not anti-gun, I'm anti trade defecit with China that allows their goverment, which is still an enemy to democracy, to get high technology for weapons that can be used to destroy us, or more likely, freedom loving Chinese people first.

I hope communism implodes in China like in the Soviet Union...however, I think the Chinese government is playing the free world for suckers (pretending to open up for trade and care about human rights) in order to get the technology and funds they need to continue their oppressive regime. I hope I'm wrong though...I'm no expert. Again, just talking about the Govt, not the people. I believe 90% of people all over the world are good, it's just the 10% that can really screw things up!
 
hmm gotta delurk for this one...

Make no mistake, the United States is at war with China.

Business is War

It's a war that we are losing quite handily. Anyone that thinks otherwise is deluding himself.

All nations are adversaries. It's that simple. American companies are at war with Chinese companies, British Companies, Mexican companes etc etc.

However China is a special case. They ARE the only other super power. Russia is a joke. In the cold war a super power was defined by how many nukes or tanks or soldiers a country could field. Today a super power is defined by the economic, cultural and political, and technological strength a country can wield.

China is clawing its way to super power status. They are doing this on all 3 fronts.

The economic front is the easiest to see. Who manufactures almost all industrial products for the world markets now? Norinco is just a drop in the hat. Here we are, the country that invented the 1911, and Americans have to look to CHINA to buy affordable guns. That is sad.

Cultural and Political strength is also quite easy to see. The united states is content to let China fill the power vacuum in south east asia. This makes sense. China is the dominant state in Asia and is a member nation in UN and the WTO. Culturally you must understand that like America, China believes that its way of life is superior. Don't expect China to play by the same rules. the UN and WTO are means to an end that only China knows.

Technological strength is probably the scariest part of our war. China is fighting tooth and nail to jumpstart themselves into the same league as the US. They are sending THEIR citizens to OUR schools to learn everything they can. They are spending 5% or their entire GDP on their space program. I can't stress enough how important this development is. The space program is a force multiplier for the entire economy. In america the space program jump started the whole freaking high tech sector. Every cool technology we have come to enjoy has it's parentage in the space industry. China knows this.

The chinese people and the chinese culture are awesome. I should hope so because I am chinese!

However, I believe that what we have here in America for all its faults is the best system of government. China does not agree.

PS China still does have a lot of nukes, tanks, and soldiers
 
Chinese arms

Frankly it does not suprise me one bit that Communist China is beating the U.S. at making inexpensive firearms. It can be likened to the situation with consumer electronics and the Japanese 30-40 years ago. We in the U.S. are good at innovation, or at least we used to be. Other nations have gotten good at taking the ideas we come up and and expanding and mass producing the goods that come out of ideas. Sorta a economy of scale type thing. So we'll dream up the weapons of the future, and contract out the production to somebody else.

Vapor22: You are correct that Business is war. Have you read any of the reports and articles circulating concerning an impending Banking collapse in Communist China? I've tried, but that level of finance stuff is really beyond me (think Klingon talking buisness with a Fernegi). I DID NOT know that they are putting 5% of their GDP into the space program. THAT sorta bugs me, since someone with an base on the moon, and a decent launch system can dictate terms to the rest of the planet on anything they choose. A couple of multiton projectiles pushed up over the moons gravity well and down into Earth's make a very strong arguing point.

Though if it gets me to the moon, I can wear a red star on my cap and read Chairman Mao with the best of 'em. :D
 
The 5% value is by no means law. But a space program rarely ever just involves building a spaceship and training astronauts.

The truth is we really have no idea how much china is really spending for their space program. Estimates from American news sources put it at a paltry 3 billion dollars a year. American spends like 15 billion for space. So we should be ok right?

FYI: I got the 5% figure from some family friends in china. They go to a polytechnic in Beijing and that was the lecture as told to them by a professor. incidentally that polytechnic college is seriously stressing advanced mathematics and physics in their curriculum. i'm an Electrical Engineering student here and I took a look at that stuff...let's just say that at least I could start the question...
 
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