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CMP 1911’s-they started shipping!

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Sovblocgunfan, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    Interesting. I used to be a reenactor (American Civil War.) There is no way...no way I would carry an original 61 or 63 Springfield around at an event. I used a repro 53 Enfield...and got made fun of because I didn't strip the blueing off the barrel and soak it in salt water to get it to rust. Blueing was "farb" or "far-bee" as in "far be it from authentic." Then again, those were the same guys who soaked all of their brass uniform buttons in their own urine to get them to corrode properly. Some people's kids.
     
  2. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    You may not have done so but there are those who strive for accuracy, especially in the WW reenactments. I'm guessing it's because the equipment is still available at an affordable price. I would see no danger to the 1911 in such a setting and it would be a great exhibit at the "show-n-tell" that inevitably happens when sitting around talking.
     
  3. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Reenactors shoot blanks. Getting an automatic to function on blanks takes extensive alteration that I would not do even to a ANAD rework mixmaster. For show and tell, sure.
     
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  4. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    I'm with you on this. If I were doing WWII reenacting, I'd be using an Armscor lol.
     
  5. wojownik

    wojownik Member

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    LOL, my experience with CW re-enacting was kind of similar. I strove for authenticity - and that included knowing what year and region you were portraying. Fresh troops at the first Bull Run did not have any rust or tarnish. And the Regular army ... well when portraying that we buffed our brass with ash the hard (and original) way. Lots of "authentics" sniffed at this but, guess what, the Regular army was literally spit and polish even in the field.

    I did know some folks who toted all manner of 19th century weaponry on the field - officer's swords, muskets and rifled-muskets. I thought that was just nuts. Enjoy them for the history. Even shoot them with care. But exposing them to the elements and this re-created field abuse just seemed like outright abuse of some historical relics. I wasn't shy about my opinion about it too.
     
  6. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    You must have been doing Union Army.
     
  7. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I never said I would modify a CMP 1911, seriously?
     
  8. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    The 1911 I had issued to me in the Army, prior to the switch to the M9, was old and tired, but it was still accurate. I never had a problem qualifying expert with it and was sad to have to turn it in for the last time.

    I wonder if mine is in that pile of pistols? Even if I was, and and they let me pick it out to keep, I wouldn’t pay what they’re asking.
     
  9. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    One of your kids could trade it for an Iphone.:D
     
  10. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Personally, I don’t see them as collectible.
    Vast majority are mix-masters, and unlike the .30Carbine, much superior commercial production is easily available and at a much lower price.

    Each surplus 1911 sold increases the privately owned inventory reducing the value of all those already in circulation.

    Try selling a mixmaster Garand at a gunshow or online auction. Hint, they sell for LESS than CMP wants for them...

    Where the interest is going to be is getting several and swapping parts to generate a “correct” item, as regards original parts. Current price point and sales policy/procedures obstructs this.
     
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  11. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    What if these are the last genuine USGI surplus 1911's available to the public? It would not surprise me if congress stops the sale next year at 18000. The CMP has said that they can't be sure the program will survive.

    If I'm not mistaken Garands have been available thru the CMP for a long time and service grade rifles are still available for $750. That's probably the reason you can't get more than $1000 for one at a gun show or online, but people still try.

    It's nothing more than a commodities and futures market. People that are picking these up are betting that the numbers are limited. It's a roll of the dice.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  12. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    Well, if the WWII re-enactors are striving for accuracy, they should be using one of the newer GI Spec guns offered by various gun makers. A significant portion of the guns used in WWII were basically NEW when they went to war and that's what a re-enactor trying to be authentic should be using.

    The WWII guns were NOT mix-master guns that may have been re-arsenaled several times over their long service life; many of them also saw use in Korea and Vietnam and some continued in service even after the Beretta M9 was introduced in 1980.
     
  13. maxxhavoc

    maxxhavoc Member

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    Hmm, in this area, $900 Garands at him shows don't last long. After the first hour most are $1,100 or more and still disappear. Not questioning your statement, just thinking I might need to take a road trip Are they plentiful at the shows there?

    Of course you can't sell an AR for much at shows here... But the show takes place 2 miles from the PSA retail store.
     
  14. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    I keep hearing this from people here. I've responded here and there, but it's getting to be like a repetitive lesson for my history class. The availability and relative cost of "much superior commercial production" is irrelevant. These are not being sold or bought as an alternative to a Springfield, Colt, or even an Armscor. This is our chance to own a piece of American history. Pure and simple.

    Objects can have history. In this case, this is an artifact of a time when men a lot tougher than you and I bore the brunt of battle in some of the greatest human disasters in world history. It's also an artifact of early to mid 20th century mass production manufacturing.

    To be perfectly honest (someone is going roast me for this) I don't really like the 1911 design. I hate the grip safety, and I really dislike the idea of carrying it "stage one" (locked and cocked). I MUCH preferred the M9 design. I'm not buying the gun to shoot, compete, or even train. I would never own a 1911 for those purposes. I'm not buying a gun; I'm buying a piece of American History.

    If the naysayers could open their minds for a moment and see these guns for what they are, they might be less critical.

    Absolutely agree. Basic Econ 101. This is the most base rule of the law of supply and demand.

    Absolutely.
     
  15. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    This is the sixty-four dollar question right here. This may the last time these guns are in existence. I don't think it's fear mongering or using FUD tactics (although, it is a FUD scenario) to envision a scenario where next year's NDAA is held up by the House of Representatives and this program gets sacrificed during reconciliation to move the bill forward. I don't think anyone is going to shut down the government over these guns. Fast forward 2 more years and Biden is in office and his party still holds the House. Who in the Senate is going to filibuster an NDAA to save these guns? The remaining 1911s will go to the shredder. (That's pretty much my prediction.)
     
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  16. gc70

    gc70 Member

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    I checked GunBroker's 90-day sales history for Garands. Out of 658 reported sales, only 7 rifles sold for less than the CMP Service grade price of $750. Of those 7, only 2 rifles sold for less than the CMP Field grade price of $650 (and one of those was a gosh-awful 'sporterized' rifle that sold for way too much at $495). So, 99% of the Garands exposed to a national market sold for more than the CMP's typical prices.
     
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  17. Rock185

    Rock185 Member

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    I was issued 1911A1s in the military, and later had access to some from the Fed's 1033 Program. I have not been tempted to purchase one of the CMP guns. But I wish all that ordered one well, and am looking forward to seeing what buyers actually receive. I do believe they will start showing up on auction sites at starting prices initially 2 or 3 times what CMP charged.....ymmv
     
  18. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    I suspect you're correct.

    And that's going to be more than I'm willing to pay. Even for a piece of history.
     
  19. Homerboy

    Homerboy Member

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    Me too. I’m in the lottery and waiting for my number to be emailed to me. I’m hoping to be picked, but I will not pay more than what the CMP is asking. If I ever do get one and change my mind about them, I’ll have no trouble getting my money back. Breaking even would be easy. Making a profit also easy. 19000 people sent in an order packet for 8000 guns. And that’s just for this time around. Who knows how many packets get sent in tbe next round?
     
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  20. amd6547

    amd6547 Member

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    I’ve only looked at one of these CMP 1911’s, in a thread at CMP forum. It had a Colt frame and an Ithaca slide, and looked like new. The owner gave an excellent range report, as well.
    I believe this is likely the last time a citizen will be able to buy a service pistol from the US Govt.
    Buying my M1 Carbine from CMP a few years ago was one of my very best firearms buys. If I’d had the spare cash, I certainly would have jumped into the 1911 sale.
     
  21. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    My math tells me that with 19000 order packets sent in and only 18000 guns this year and next, the existing CMP supply is spoken for already.

    I know the army has another 80000 guns. The Koreans have a boat load of carbines they would like to get rid of also. Just because they exist doesn't mean a civilian will ever have a chance to buy one. Something else to remember. Obama was the one that banned the import of M1 carbines from Korea by exec order. Did Trump rescind that one? Nope. We still have it. So we don't really have a pro gun administration like everyone claims and with a dem majority in the house military surplus and a lot of other stuff will just keep slipping out of our reach.

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
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  22. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    I have been impressed with the pics of the first CMP 1911's that have shipped.

    This means one of two things:

    1) Either CMP is sending out the "pick of the litter" right now, or
    2) The 1911's of the various units that I served with were far worse than the majority.
     
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  23. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    I had one when I was in the Navy in 69. That one was in fair shape but these CMP pistols look a lot better. I think many of these CMP pistols we are seeing now went to an arsenal and were refurbished then packed away without any further use.
     
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  24. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Most, if not all of the CMP 1911’s have been re-Arsenaled at one time or another if not more than once. They will be mixmasters! Only Lady Luck will net you a “as issue” original. Odds are like 1/1000. But,,,,,,, that’s why there were 19,000 packets sent in.

    When I was in high school in the early ‘70’s, I worked at a gun shop in Anniston, Al. Several of our “regulars” worked at the small arms maintenance facility at Anniston Army Depot. One even built me my first 1911 from an Essex frame and Remington-Rand slide circa 1973. (I provided the parts, he built it at home. Even their lunch boxes were searched entering and leaving, daily.).
    They often spoke of the management “cherry picking” the guns for “issue” guns for generals and other dignitaries. Most were already barely functioning by end of Vietnam era. Most were rebuilt from parts removed from “junk” guns.
    Yes, the CMP is sending out the best available. Again, assembling decent “serviceable” firearms from parts. YMMV.
    Check out the CMP forum for yourselves. I understand the best of the best, like the .30carbines, will be auctioned.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
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  25. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    I keep hearing the term "mixmaster" used in the pejorative. (As in "stinking lousy mixmaster.") I would point out that a mixmaster is still a piece of history. Is it the most perfect holy grail of collectors? Is it that incredibly rare Singer with all matching and correct parts? Certainly not. But neither is it some POS knock-off made in the Philippines, i.e. Springfield and Armscor.
     
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