100% agree to all. Admittedly, my longest shot (600 meters) was with irons on my M4 on a SAW range, but I think RDS are almost always faster and more accurate.
John
Co-witness iron sight on my AR - Why can't I see it?
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John
Varminterror
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Keep fighting your war, John, I wish you nothing but well.
Choctaw
Member
Many people use their ARs for home defense. That absolutely makes this a pertinent topic.
Varminterror
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Home defense is not the same context of the proposed mission in enemy territory with realistic expectation of prolonged engagement.
Anyone who's been at basic training, has heard the expression "two is one, and one is none". This is both a statement of the value of teamwork, and a statement of the vital importance of redundancy in life threatening scenarios.
if you have a magnified optic on your home defense rifle, you need iron sights you can instantly transition to. if you have an unmagnified optic on your home defense rifle, if that stops working, the only sighting option you would then have would be the iron sights you're hopefully smart enough to have mounted.
if you have a magnified optic on your home defense rifle, you need iron sights you can instantly transition to. if you have an unmagnified optic on your home defense rifle, if that stops working, the only sighting option you would then have would be the iron sights you're hopefully smart enough to have mounted.
The Glockodile
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The rear peep sight is useful in eliminating parallax error and astigmatism issues, when you want to squeeze very bit of “precision” out of your 2 MOA red dot.
“Precision.”
Huhhuhhhuhhhuh
“Precision.”
Huhhuhhhuhhhuh
OrangeCat
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I like using an absolute co-witness on my stuff; because if I'm just taking a pot shot at a small annoying critter on top of the trashcan it doesn't matter what is turned on, bright enough to see, dead or whatever, there is something that I can use to draw a bead on the fuzzy vandal.
And I feel like if there is a front sight post anyway there's no real harm in putting something on back the back to match.
I have stuff that is optics only too but it's cheap insurance.
And I feel like if there is a front sight post anyway there's no real harm in putting something on back the back to match.
I have stuff that is optics only too but it's cheap insurance.
Until they make me leave. Did get to talk to Kyle Lamb for 4 hrs yesterday with a very small audience, which was amazing.
Here's one of my (shorter range) ARs, with 1x prism sight
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It has pop-up 45° BUIS.
It's super quick to roll the rifle to bring the irons sights up
Rather like flashlights, some form of backup sight is just too easy to not have one on a rifle with a serious mission.
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It has pop-up 45° BUIS.
It's super quick to roll the rifle to bring the irons sights up
Rather like flashlights, some form of backup sight is just too easy to not have one on a rifle with a serious mission.
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entropy
Member
I have pop-op BUIS on my AR pistols, which have red dots on them, that work out to 100 yds. which is more distance than I'd probably use them.
My carbine has a 1-8 Strike Eagle on it, no BUIS yet, though I am considering a 45 degree mount mini RDS.
To answer the part of your post I underlined; variable scopes have focal points adjust able down to a few yards, but that front sight is under that distance; it creates the same effect a presbyope (person who needs reading glasses or addpower to their glasses) sees when they are trying to hold their phone as far from the eyes as physically possible. The scope can't focus that close, unless designed to, which riflescopes are not. (Our eyes have this ability, but slowly lose it over time, usually starting in one's 40's, though younger generations will need add power younger than today's presbyopes, due to increased electronic device use.
Lo-Profile
Member
None of my scoped AR's have buis.
All of my AR's with RDS have them.
With a scoped gun you'll probably never need buis unless you have a catastrophic scope failure.
All of my AR's with RDS have them.
With a scoped gun you'll probably never need buis unless you have a catastrophic scope failure.
entropy
Member
It's nice to have that RDS off to the side for close in shots when your scope is cranked up to it's max power, particularly for hunting. You maybe can get away with flipping a magnifier for a dot in combat, but a deer will be in the next county before you could get the shot. Slowly tipping the rifle to use the RDS is possible, though.
No one said "proposed mission in enemy territory with realistic expectation of prolonged engagement". I asked for your credentials that would enable you to definitively state that no-one needed backup sights on their AR. Since you do not possess said credentials, you attempted reductio ad absurdum instead of admitting "hey, you're right, John. I'm not an expert, just someone who forgot only informed opinions count in a technical context."
We're not talking favorite ice cream flavors, we're talking about life, mechanical failure or distance variations, and Murphy. I've seen lots of things go wrong in 20 years of military service, and over 30 years of hunting. I've had an optic that stuck in place while sitting in the deer stand, not allowing me to change magnification, and I've had rings loosen on a lightweight.45-70 after firing some hot loads. I've also heard the sounds of an entire herd of pigs around me as I prepared to leave my stand at night. Backup sites (nonmagnified) would have been a great comfort to me. I wasn't using an AR15 that night the pigs were all around me: one of the best things about ARs is how easy they are to modify. You don't have to be a gunsmith to do a good job of mounting a scope or iron sights on your AR.
Here's a pic of deer I took at 225 and 175 yards with the same rifle and optic that froze on a different day. Gun writer Tamara Keel and deceased staff member Byron Quick were also present that day.
Here's a pic of me, younger, dumber, and with the only cowboy-shaped hat I could find within 50 miles, supporting a team from 3rd Special Forces Group, in early 2007, in Kapisa Province. My rifle is wearing a Trijicon LPVO, but the resolution may not be good enough to see my iron sights.
John
wiscoaster
Member
Never argue with anyone that knows Latin. 
Cute. It's easier than saying, "saying something ridiculous in an attempt to invalidate a valid point." But, of course you know that.Never argue with anyone that knows Latin.
Maybe you think we should just let passive-aggressive poor behavior by "anonymous" people online go unchallenged, but I do not. If someone states a position, the burden of proof is on them to prove that position. This isn't poor manners, it's logic. What would be boorish behavior would be making a claim, then sniping instead of providing any proof or evidence when challenged.
Our country has bred a generation or two who have the mistaken belief that all opinions are created equal. This generation largely does not understand the rules of evidence, or of dialogue and discourse.
The ability to use the word "meme" proves nothing, though it does typically point to a younger user. I'm aware of its use in the 1995 Barnes novel Kaleidoscope Century, though probably few people remember that. I read it in 1998, IIRC.
wiscoaster
Member
Yes. And the corollary to that is if someone's position is wrong, it's good manners to clearly and thoughtfully explain why, and it's bad manners to just state "No, you're wrong". I'm sure we've all been there and probably even done that on both sides of that particular forum etiquette.
Oh, I asked for evidence of why that person's position was right. Instead of that being given, sideways personal attacks were delivered. I stated my reasons for why I believed what I believed. The other party just stated opinion, and then refused to back that up with literally anything.
I'm not an internet warrior, I'm someone who has been shooting for over 40 years, and a current active duty service member who has deployed to combat zones for almost 2 years, some of that time in areas where there was a very active enemy presence. I received my first formal instruction in firearms to carry on the job in 1994, have had several classes with POST certified instructors, and went through Gunsite's classic handgun course before my last deployment (and shot a max qual with M9 the next month AND shot 3 targets for the fat CPT in the next lane).
I get that some people think they can hide behind their keyboards and say literally anything with no accountability, but it just ain't so. We're not doing that person any favors, and we're also not doing the brand new shooters who are reading this stuff any favors, either. If they think that Joe 12 packs opinion based on literally nothing is equally as valid as someone who has a much broader range of experience. IOW, someone like Art Eatman*, or Dave McC* 's opinion on (respectively) rifles and shotguns means a lot more than someone who has been to the range a handful of times in their life. hso's opinion on most knives is a learned, and experienced one. We have a treasure trove of genuine Subject Matter Experts in the membership here, and all of the real SMEs will be happy to explain why they actually know what they're talking about. Jeff White, for example, was a career military man and now retired LEO. Johnny Guest* was a career LEO and lifelong shooter. I shot an IDPA match with him, when I was in Texas for an Army school in 2009.
So, again, it's fair and reasonable to ask someone who states a definitive opinion to back that up with something that we are likely to recognize as evidence. That gives the reader something to base their judgment upon.
*all deceased friends of mine
wiscoaster
Member
I think that generally becomes apparent in due course ....
citizenconn
Member
Barba non facit philosophum.Never argue with anyone that knows Latin.
or perhaps...
Surdo oppedere.
wiscoaster
Member
Well, that I couldn't make sense of without running it through Google translate, and frankly, Google choked on the second phrase. Is the verb tense correct?
But you may be happy to know that I'm clean-shaven. (most days)
But you may be happy to know that I'm clean-shaven. (most days)
citizenconn
Member
roughly: to belch before the deaf
citizenconn
Member
Or use a prism scope with an etched reticle or similar.
Zerodefect
member
Same. I might put offset irons on one of them though. It's tricky finding lefty ones that I like.
You can also increase your led brightness to something less precise. Then you can use Bindon Aiming. It's easy if your magnification is blurring the target you're trying to focus on. Or just close your front lid.
The prism scope I posted earlier has an etched glass reticle. I don't expect it to fail, but I still have BUIS.
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