Coaching problem shooters

[Jeff22]

I had opportunity to do a little informal coaching with a few shooters who were having problems last week.

One was a girl who works at my police department. She practices occasionally but hadn't shot since around Thanksgiving.

One is a girl who used to work with us who recently transferred to another department and hadn't shot since September.

One was a guy I shoot in local USPSA matches, fairly new to shooting, who in the past was smooth & accurate and reasonably proficient, but who has not been shooting well of late.

These were a couple of the things I observed:

At really close range, (out to 5 yards or so?) you can focus on the target and point the handgun and often get decent hits. If you are moving or the target is moving or both, target focus shooting may or may not work in that application, depending on circumstance and your skill level.

At greater distances it requires greater precision on the sights and trigger control to get a good hit. At close range, you can just focus on the front sight, put the front sight on the target and get a hit. Oftentimes even if you jerk the trigger, you can still get a hit. As distance increases, it becomes more necessary to employ proper sight picture and sight alignment. The shooter's visual focus will have to come off the target to the front sight before the shot breaks. At greater distance, the visual focus will have to come off the target and you have to look through the rear sight at the front sight, and have some kind of alignment to get a hit.

With the cops, the course we were practicing on had stages at 3 yards (18 rnds) 7 yards (18 rnds) 15 yards (8 rnds involving shooting around cover) and 25 yards (6 rnds shooter's choice of position).

With my USPSA buddy, we did all our shooting on an IPSC target at 50 feet.

Everybody seemed to have problems with running the sights -- either they didn't shift visual focus from the target back to the front sight, or they only used front sight focus at 15 yards (which didn't work very well) or they were looking OVER the sights rather than through them.

Part of the problem was that they were all trying to go too fast. Trigger control actually wasn't too bad, except that the girls struggled shooting weak hand only at 3 yards. (trigger jerk was very noticeable and I'm not totally sure but I think they were looking at the target and not the front sight)

Both females were using a Glock 22 and in both cases the gun is almost too big for their hand, even with the small back-straps installed. All of the shooters were right handed, and at distance the girls were hooking shots to the left, pushing on the side of the trigger rather than pressing it straight back.

My USPSA buddy (who most often shoots a Glock 17 in production class) had been working to increase his speed lately, and as a consequence he was jerking the trigger some, failing to reset the trigger or follow through, and not getting enough sight alignment at distance. We figured that out, and he shot a bunch of timed fire groups (5 shots in 20 seconds) from the holster on both bullseyes and an IPSC target, and he self corrected his problem.

One girl was using her duty rig and the other was using a leather off duty holster. She got in the habit of holding the mouth of the holster open with her support hand while re-holstering and as a result she swept her hand with the muzzle EVERY time she re-holstered. She had no idea she was doing that. I think that it will take some serious re-training for her to get over that habit.

Nothing that some frequent practice can't solve, and all pretty common problems I think.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Video and a laser trainer (there's kits I've seen and Blue Pistol makes at least glocks)
will show the wavers while lining up.
less expensive

That and, I kinda hate to say they, but the trick our former SF, doctor
(yeah, he had a thing about making sure the medics did the shooting and not the being shot thing...)
He'd make close our eyes and do a dry run, visualize, and break down each step
and ask why, what are you doing, why
it's a body feel thing, makes you see it in your head and think of the steps.
course when he either said 'ok' or showed you a way to eliminate 4 steps...
didn't make you feel too bright, he had an answer about that, not about being bright, bout coming home at the end of the day.

So for the holstering, doing it blindfolded, makes you learn where the holster is, and think of 'where is your hand'

He trained us pretty well, and well enough to know how far I am from being proficient.

 

[Sam1911]

At really close range, (out to 5 yards or so?) you can focus on the target ...
At greater distances it requires greater precision on the sights...
As distance increases, it becomes more necessary to employ proper sight picture and sight alignment. ...

Exactly so. Accurate shooting at speed invokes a continuum of sight refinement.

At <2 yards, with practice, all you need really is a body index to the target. Shooting from retention (Position 2 of the draw-stroke) and orienting your torso toward the threat will put hits on the target. (Without extending the gun toward the threat, so he can grab it and/or deflect your shot.)

More distance, like out to 4-5 yards for most folks, you can get those hits by just seeing the silhouette of the back of the slide flash into view, superimposed on the threat in front of you. At those distances you have close to zero time to work with and your focus is going to be entirely on that threat. Seeing peripherally that the gun is pointed the right way and held on the target will be enough to put those hits on the target.

Adding a little more distance, you need that front sight to come clearly into view. The focus starts to shift away from the target itself, and fully onto the front sight. That's the primary mechanism for MOST good pistol shooting: See the front sight in clear focus and put that sharp, focused front sight directly on the target, which is slightly blurry in your distant field of view. That should be able to carry you out to at least 20 yards, IMHO, as long as your trigger control is good.

Much longer range than that will start to require careful "dressing" of the sight picture where you take the time to really SEE the rear sight and the front sight and get off that slow "surprise break" of the trigger.

Real mastery comes in being able to make the transition smoothly and naturally from one target to the next -- at whatever ranges -- and achieve the hits you need, taking the least time to do so.

Everybody seemed to have problems with running the sights -- either they didn't shift visual focus from the target back to the front sight, or they only used front sight focus at 15 yards (which didn't work very well) or they were looking OVER the sights rather than through them.

Well, all work at different ranges.

I'd suggest that trigger control was a much bigger issue than sight picture. Front sight focus at 15 yards is just fine, so long as your trigger control is good enough.

Part of the problem was that they were all trying to go too fast.

Oh, undoubtedly. Everyone wants to go fast, because when you're faced with a violent threat and must shoot, you WILL go too fast. That's unstoppable instinctive nature. The trick is to train yourself to do the RIGHT stuff "too fast."

Trigger control actually wasn't too bad, except that the girls struggled shooting weak hand only at 3 yards. (trigger jerk was very noticeable and I'm not totally sure but I think they were looking at the target and not the front sight)

I don't think I'd be spending too much time concentrating on the sights at 3 yards or less. Once their trigger pull is smooth, just having the silhouette of the back of the pistol visible over the center of mass is plenty enough sighting at that distance. Training someone that they must see their sights at such extremely close (and doubtless, rapidly shrinking) distance is probably not realistic.

Fine for range time, not realistic "on the street."

But weak-hand shooting is HARD. It really does take A LOT of practice to get that trigger pull smooth and controlled (-ish) enough to hit well weak-handed.

Both females were using a Glock 22 and in both cases the gun is almost too big for their hand, even with the small back-straps installed. All of the shooters were right handed, and at distance the girls were hooking shots to the left, pushing on the side of the trigger rather than pressing it straight back.

This is a trigger issue, but don't be too quick to tell the ladies that the guns are too big for their hands. That can be somewhat true, but it is also a bit of a crutch. My 12-year-old daughter shoots a full-sized 9mm frequently and prefers it (an xDM but roughly the same) to other autos she's fired. Trigger practice is what's needed here.

My USPSA buddy (who most often shoots a Glock 17 in production class) had been working to increase his speed lately, and as a consequence he was jerking the trigger some, failing to reset the trigger or follow through, and not getting enough sight alignment at distance. We figured that out, and he shot a bunch of timed fire groups (5 shots in 20 seconds) from the holster on both bullseyes and an IPSC target, and he self corrected his problem.

Good! That's a good drill to practice sometimes. Everyone pushes too hard to go too fast -- and that's FINE! . You have to push too hard, too fast, so you find the ragged edge of your current competency. Then balance that out with careful accuracy work at distance. Then you work fast again, then careful accuracy, then fast again, and so forth until you get the two to meet in the middle: Your fastest accuracy, adjusted automatically for each distance.

One girl was using her duty rig and the other was using a leather off duty holster. She got in the habit of holding the mouth of the holster open with her support hand while re-holstering and as a result she swept her hand with the muzzle EVERY time she re-holstered. She had no idea she was doing that. I think that it will take some serious re-training for her to get over that habit.

Oh gad. See that SO often. Preach good gear! Stop folks from buying cheapie-floppy holsters that collapse when you draw the gun! And I'll also say -- especially for the ladies! Their hips just don't work well with soft holsters that don't stay open and they'll either end up using their support hand to hold the mouth open, or they'll "shoe-horn" the muzzle into it, muzzling their hip, leg, etc. as they try to pry the holster open with the gun itself. Bad bad bad.


Sounds like you're doing great and keep it up!

 

[morcey2]

One was a guy I shoot in local USPSA matches...

There's your problem. If you keep shooting your pupils, they tend to have issues.

(I'll add some real thoughts shortly. Gotta take my daughter to school.)

 

[Arizona_Mike]

You beat me too it! He obviously developed a flinch after being shot so many times.

Mike

 

[Sunray]

"...the gun is almost too big for their hand...and hadn't shot since September..." That'd do it. So will the lack of regular practice. Most cops never practice at all. Or worse, never touch their issue piece at all except to take it off at night. Had a couple incidents at the shop, long ago, where one guy went to unload to change grips and his revolver was rusted shut. The other was a guy who had put on the holster but left he revolver at home. Decidedly irate partner. Mind you, 'working at my police department' isn't the same thing as being a cop at said department.
I'd quit the 'stages at' part and go back to basics.
This might help. http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/Pistol_Shot_Analysis.pdf
"...shooting weak hand..." Is mostly an IPSC/IDPA game playing thing. Shot/injured badly enough to not be able to use your dominate hand will most likely take 'em out altogether.
"...One was a guy I shoot..." Um, what? snicker.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Sam1911 already touched on it, but it is important enough to repeat.

Trigger control/management is the basis of all accurate shooting...it doesn't matter what distance you are shooting at. I've seen enough misses from 2' away because folks were yanking on their triggers.

The way you learn to shoot without looking at your sights, is by practicing shooting with your sights...it teaches your body the alignment it needs when you aren't looking at a "hard" sight picture

Many people feel that the way to shoot faster is to pull the trigger faster...it makes sense, but it just isn't true. You can only shoot, if you hope to hit what you want, as fast as you can see your sights. What you need to learn to do is see you sights faster...and shorten the time between seeing you sights aligned and pressing the trigger

 

[Jeff22]

coaching problem shooters -- continued

So we have Department In-Service coming up this week.

One of the guys I work with wanted to go to the range in advance and get a little trigger time with his issued Glock 22 and his personal Glock 23.

He has HUGE hands and average trigger control but a pretty good grasp of the basics. He struggled at distance when we had DAK Sigs but now that we have Glocks that problem has pretty much taken care of itself. (The Glock has a much shorter trigger stroke and reset and is more user friendly)

He shot really well with both guns, as long as he slowed down a little on distances of 15 yards or greater.

His hands are BIG. The Glock 23 is almost too small for him. Last summer we had a bunch of officers get Glock 42s for off duty & backup use and he mentioned that he had shot one and liked it but that it was WAY too small for his hands.

With the G23 he was using a holster similar in design to a Bianchi Black Widow or a Don Hume Agent 9 -- a belt slide holster with a thumb-break.

He had acquired the habit of holding the mouth of the holster open with his support hand while re-holstering, thusly sweeping his strong hand with the muzzle each time. I suggested that he change his procedure and I got a blank stare in return. Every time he repeated his mistake, I pointed it out. I think he was becoming aggravated with me by the time we got done shooting.

It's really easy to develop and program in bad habits if you are self trained or if you do a lot of shooting by yourself without anybody watching.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I know you said you pointed it out...and I guess you explained why it was a bad thing...but did you offer an alternative method to accomplish what he was trying to do?
Did you ask why he chose to holster in that manner?

Telling someone that what they are doing is wrong can be very aggravating, if you aren't showing them a better way to do it.

 

[Jeff22]

re-holstering

This is about the third person this year that I have observed who swept their support hand while holding the mouth of the leather holster open when re-holstering the gun.

I have a bunch of Bianchi Black Widow and Don Hume Agent 9 holsters myself, though I didn't have any of them with me the other day.

I described how to re-holster while inserting the muzzle into the holster from behind and guiding the gun in that way. But the holster I was using was a Comp Tac International Duty kydex holster (with a thumb break) which is rigid and easy to re-holster with with so I couldn't exactly demonstrate the preferred procedure in a manner applicable to his holster.

I bet he's been doing that for years. He is not consciously aware of sweeping himself. (His holster looks pretty elderly & stretched out too.)

It's something I'm going to tactfully bring up at training later in the week because I bet he isn't the only person who does that when employing that kind of holster.

 

[Cee Zee]

I figured out a drill to help with trigger control and it works very well IMO. Pick a pistol that won't be hurt by dry firing it and tape a laser pointer to it. It doesn't need to be pointed where the gun will shoot. It only has to be close. The thing you want to do is put the laser dot on a target and pull the trigger trying to keep the dot on the target the entire time. You can learn to control your trigger that way without the noise or the flash or the recoil. Trigger control means a whole lot to accuracy. Others balance coins on a pistol and try to keep them from falling off when you pull the trigger. But that requires restacking the coins often. With the laser you can pull the trigger as fast and as often as you want. Just keep that dot on the target as you pull that trigger and pretty soon it will become second nature.

 

[Dentite]

Exactly so. Accurate shooting at speed invokes a continuum of sight refinement.

At <2 yards, with practice, all you need really is a body index to the target. Shooting from retention (Position 2 of the draw-stroke) and orienting your torso toward the threat will put hits on the target. (Without extending the gun toward the threat, so he can grab it and/or deflect your shot.)

More distance, like out to 4-5 yards for most folks, you can get those hits by just seeing the silhouette of the back of the slide flash into view, superimposed on the threat in front of you. At those distances you have close to zero time to work with and your focus is going to be entirely on that threat. Seeing peripherally that the gun is pointed the right way and held on the target will be enough to put those hits on the target.

Adding a little more distance, you need that front sight to come clearly into view. The focus starts to shift away from the target itself, and fully onto the front sight. That's the primary mechanism for MOST good pistol shooting: See the front sight in clear focus and put that sharp, focused front sight directly on the target, which is slightly blurry in your distant field of view. That should be able to carry you out to at least 20 yards, IMHO, as long as your trigger control is good.

Much longer range than that will start to require careful "dressing" of the sight picture where you take the time to really SEE the rear sight and the front sight and get off that slow "surprise break" of the trigger.

Real mastery comes in being able to make the transition smoothly and naturally from one target to the next -- at whatever ranges -- and achieve the hits you need, taking the least time to do so.

Well, all work at different ranges.

I'd suggest that trigger control was a much bigger issue than sight picture. Front sight focus at 15 yards is just fine, so long as your trigger control is good enough.

Oh, undoubtedly. Everyone wants to go fast, because when you're faced with a violent threat and must shoot, you WILL go too fast. That's unstoppable instinctive nature. The trick is to train yourself to do the RIGHT stuff "too fast."

I don't think I'd be spending too much time concentrating on the sights at 3 yards or less. Once their trigger pull is smooth, just having the silhouette of the back of the pistol visible over the center of mass is plenty enough sighting at that distance. Training someone that they must see their sights at such extremely close (and doubtless, rapidly shrinking) distance is probably not realistic.

Fine for range time, not realistic "on the street."

But weak-hand shooting is HARD. It really does take A LOT of practice to get that trigger pull smooth and controlled (-ish) enough to hit well weak-handed.

This is a trigger issue, but don't be too quick to tell the ladies that the guns are too big for their hands. That can be somewhat true, but it is also a bit of a crutch. My 12-year-old daughter shoots a full-sized 9mm frequently and prefers it (an xDM but roughly the same) to other autos she's fired. Trigger practice is what's needed here.

Good! That's a good drill to practice sometimes. Everyone pushes too hard to go too fast -- and that's FINE! . You have to push too hard, too fast, so you find the ragged edge of your current competency. Then balance that out with careful accuracy work at distance. Then you work fast again, then careful accuracy, then fast again, and so forth until you get the two to meet in the middle: Your fastest accuracy, adjusted automatically for each distance.

Oh gad. See that SO often. Preach good gear! Stop folks from buying cheapie-floppy holsters that collapse when you draw the gun! And I'll also say -- especially for the ladies! Their hips just don't work well with soft holsters that don't stay open and they'll either end up using their support hand to hold the mouth open, or they'll "shoe-horn" the muzzle into it, muzzling their hip, leg, etc. as they try to pry the holster open with the gun itself. Bad bad bad.


Sounds like you're doing great and keep it up!

Lots of wisdom in this post. Thanks for taking the time to write it.