Bingo. Benedict Arnold was a great soldier, yet that's not what people remember. When I think of Hackworth, I don't think of his accomplishments: I think of his self-serving rantings and Adm. Boorda. He diminished himself, and effectively chose to do so.
Col. David Hackworth
- Thread starter White Horseradish
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Bingo. Benedict Arnold was a great soldier, yet that's not what people remember. When I think of Hackworth, I don't think of his accomplishments: I think of his self-serving rantings and Adm. Boorda. He diminished himself, and effectively chose to do so.
Waitone
Member
Hack's record get him listened to by me. Everything past that point is based on what he does. Just like McCain.
Where I do admire Hack is about his ceaseless support of the grunt. In a world where glitz, hightech, and publicity rule decision making processes, Hack could be counted on to hold up for the flesh and blood grunt. And war is ultimately about flesh and blood.
Where I do admire Hack is about his ceaseless support of the grunt. In a world where glitz, hightech, and publicity rule decision making processes, Hack could be counted on to hold up for the flesh and blood grunt. And war is ultimately about flesh and blood.
"markdido, many people go to mexico for cancer treatments that are not approved in the USA. actor steve mcqueen was one. but i have never heard of anyone that it saved."
Ditto. A good fellow I knew had bladder cancer. He's previously watched one of his parents go the traditional route (surgery, chemo, etc.)with treating thier bladder cancer and die. He deciced to do the alternative Mexico treatments instead. He also died.
Ditto. A good fellow I knew had bladder cancer. He's previously watched one of his parents go the traditional route (surgery, chemo, etc.)with treating thier bladder cancer and die. He deciced to do the alternative Mexico treatments instead. He also died.
spartacus2002
Member
As a former cancer patient at a young age, I made the decision that if I am over age 70 and hit with cancer again, I ain't going thru chemo/surgery again. It was damn hard to recover from the cut-and-poison in my 20s, much less trying to do that in my 70s.
If I'm in Mexico seeking alternative treatment, you can be sure it will be of the Hookers and Coke variety
If I'm in Mexico seeking alternative treatment, you can be sure it will be of the Hookers and Coke variety
bountyhunter
member
My primary gripe with Hackworth wasn't just that his rants were full of baloney, it's the fact he went on a public tirade about how the military issue weapons were defective while we had troops deployed. That's just plain stupid, and anybody with a living brain cell knows what the family of a soldier is going to feel if they hear an "expert" ragging on about how their weapons don't fire, the bullets won't stop the enemy, the troops are all begging for better guns...
Hackworth's agenda was always the maximization of his own reputation, which I really don't care about until it gets to the point where he is hurting the families of the troops.
Hackworth's agenda was always the maximization of his own reputation, which I really don't care about until it gets to the point where he is hurting the families of the troops.
DRZinn
Member
Besides the alternative treatments everyone else mentioned, you can get medical or dental care in Mexico for a fraction of the cost and, if you're very careful, the same quality as in the US.
Lobotomy Boy
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Are you suggesting that a person should not criticize the government in times of national emergency, even when you believe that the government is wrong? That's Commie talk, more appropriate in China than in the U.S. I prefer to live in a free country, thank you very much, and if you want to turn the United States into a totalitarian state, well, there are plenty of those out there already. You can go live in one of those instead of turning my country into another one.
Hackworth's tirades weren't nearly as dangerous to the troops as the early M16s he was railing against. I imagine you watch your troops getting blown to bits because they were issued a rifle that wasn't properly tested or fully functional in the environment in which it was issued, you get a little pi$$ed off at the slappies who issued that rifle. And if you have a pair, you do what you can to get your people the proper equipment, even if that means publicly going head to head with said slappies. If I was a troop under Hackworth, I'd appreciate the fact that he sacrificed his military career in an attempt to improve my safety.
1. The problem with the M16 was largely that the ammunition was changed so that the weapon malfunctioned, and some idiot took a comment about cleaning requirements and spread a rumor that it didn't have to be cleaned. Not the system's fault.
2. Hack could never get past this and recognize that the situation in Vietnam, even with the 16, wasn't the same today. It was his claim to fame, and without it, his fame was diminished. Kind of like Ralph Nader and "customer safety".
Waitone
Member
That idiot would be Sec. Defense McNamara. McNamara chose to ignore all the combat experience we gained in fight the Pacific War. If Stoner didn't think a cleaning kit was necessary, why should anyone else question him.
There were major problems with the first M-16's used in Vietnam.
Lobotomy Boy
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True, but the point is not whether it was the fault of the system or the fault of some government slappy. The point is that the weapons didn't function properly so the people under Hackworth's command were dying when they didn't need to be dying and it enraged him. True, the system was much improved and Hackworth never got over it, but when you see people who are your responsibility torn to bits because a weapon system wasn't working as promised, you tend to be a little skeptical about that system. What rational person wouldn't mistrust that system?
The Colonel deserves to rest in peace, as do all warriors. I've seen him speak occasionaly on TV and he seemed sincere. He often came across as a self-made man in love with the creator. Of his articles, agree with about 30% of those I've read. As far as his opinions (and ours) about this weapon or that; they don't hold much weight with the policy-makers. Again, may he rest in peace and his widow fair well.
No_Brakes23
Member
I googled info on Boorda and Hack, and couldn't find much other than the barest details. I find it hard to believe that we can dislike a man for "making" someone commit suicide. Suicide, whether right or wrong, is a personal choice, not something someone else "makes" you do.
As for the M16, it had well documented problems which may or may not have been the weapon/ammunition's fault. The M16A2s I was issued weren't perfect, but they worked. If an old-timer who was in Viet Nam couldn't get past his bias against them, I am not gonna hold that against him. See, unlike Ralph Nader who whined about the Corvair AFTER GM fixed it, Hackworth never got the military to give up the M16.
I might not have agreed with him on everything, but I respect his service and I respect his dissent.
As for the M16, it had well documented problems which may or may not have been the weapon/ammunition's fault. The M16A2s I was issued weren't perfect, but they worked. If an old-timer who was in Viet Nam couldn't get past his bias against them, I am not gonna hold that against him. See, unlike Ralph Nader who whined about the Corvair AFTER GM fixed it, Hackworth never got the military to give up the M16.
I might not have agreed with him on everything, but I respect his service and I respect his dissent.
Just one report
You didn't find anything? The first search revealed the above, and 302 others.
Yet another
Hackworth claims Boorda dishonored himself by wearing false ribbons Too bad Hack claimed to be a Ranger, was not in any way entitled to that title, and bent over backwards justifying his . . . error.
You didn't find anything? The first search revealed the above, and 302 others.
Yet another
Hackworth claims Boorda dishonored himself by wearing false ribbons Too bad Hack claimed to be a Ranger, was not in any way entitled to that title, and bent over backwards justifying his . . . error.
svtruth
Member
Rip
De mortuis nil nissi bonum
De mortuis nil nissi bonum
Jeff Timm
Member
From the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/05/AR2005050501110_pf.html
I wonder how many of the critics posting here have any military time, much less combat time.
Geoff
Who freely admits he was a Rear Echelon Military Facilitator, US Army Ordnance Corps, 1972 - 1982.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/05/AR2005050501110_pf.html
I wonder how many of the critics posting here have any military time, much less combat time.
Geoff
Who freely admits he was a Rear Echelon Military Facilitator, US Army Ordnance Corps, 1972 - 1982.
goalie
Member
Some of the best all-around people I have ever met are individuals that I would never, ever want by my side in combat, let alone behind me, and I must admit that I was very, very lucky to have some of the most morally corrupt, borderline sociopathic individuals I have ever met by my side while being shot at in the Corps.
Valor and skill at arms are in no way related to a person's moral character. That said, I find it hard to believe that anyone can fault the man for his opinion of the M16 weapons system after his (and his troops) early experiences with that weapons system.
Valor and skill at arms are in no way related to a person's moral character. That said, I find it hard to believe that anyone can fault the man for his opinion of the M16 weapons system after his (and his troops) early experiences with that weapons system.
bjbarron
Member
I second that.
...what scary memories that quote dredged up...borderline was the least you could say.
Some guys just need a war. Two guys on the small team I served with committed suicide within 20 years of getting out. They were only whole in combat. These are the type of guys that bushvets come from...if you guys even remember them.
The Col. was one of those guys who needed war to be whole.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Anybody who can come up with such an apt title as "Perfumed Princes of the Pentagon" can be forgiven a whole bunch of stuff, IMO.
The final years of our involvement in Vietnam led to the accuracy of the term "wasted"; our political and upper-echelon Pentagon ideas wasted a lot of heroic grunts. To me, with Hack's record of trying to take care of his men, it's no wonder he resigned in disgust.
For all that I was a REMF in 1954/1958, I've always believed that if you're gonna have a war, go for it hair, teeth and eyeballs. Anything less gets good folks wasted. But that's an IMO.
Whether or not he was correct in his various opinions, never forget that the focus of his concern was the well-being of all those guys "way down there" at the squad and company level. That doesn't seem to be all that big an issue for the Folks On High in today's world, as near as I can tell.
Hey, I don't figure I'm seeing perfection, even when I'm using the mirror while shaving. I don't really expect it others, either.
RIP, Hack...
Art
The final years of our involvement in Vietnam led to the accuracy of the term "wasted"; our political and upper-echelon Pentagon ideas wasted a lot of heroic grunts. To me, with Hack's record of trying to take care of his men, it's no wonder he resigned in disgust.
For all that I was a REMF in 1954/1958, I've always believed that if you're gonna have a war, go for it hair, teeth and eyeballs. Anything less gets good folks wasted. But that's an IMO.
Whether or not he was correct in his various opinions, never forget that the focus of his concern was the well-being of all those guys "way down there" at the squad and company level. That doesn't seem to be all that big an issue for the Folks On High in today's world, as near as I can tell.
Hey, I don't figure I'm seeing perfection, even when I'm using the mirror while shaving. I don't really expect it others, either.
RIP, Hack...
Art
Love or hate Colonel Hackworth, its your choice...but keep in mind, this man fought for his right to speak his piece / peace.....he earned and deserved that right threw his actions. He lived in honor, and sorted right and wrong quickly, was not a politician....but a warrior!!! RIP Sir....
CZ 75 BD
Member
Hack on Cspan
14:45 CT today
Right now
14:45 CT today
Right now
Jeff Timm
Member
We are still having problems with the M-16 and other weapons in Iraq and Afganistan. With 40 years to fix the thing, we still haven't.
Geoff
Who remembers Jessica Lynch and the circumstances causing her capture and rescue.
Geoff
Who remembers Jessica Lynch and the circumstances causing her capture and rescue.
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