Cold bore first round fliers - any wonder cure?

Status
Not open for further replies.
F

Fat_46

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
537
Location
Coon Rapids, MN
Just looking for advice here. I have newly built Remington 700 action with a 28" Krieger chambered in .260 all mounted in a PDC Custom chassis stock. The barrel is 100% free floated, the action screws are torqued to 57 in/lbs, I have a Timney trigger installed adjusted to 18 ounces, and a David Tubb SpeedLock pin/spring in the bolt, with a PTG aluminum shroud.

I found a Prairie Dog load she loves (95gr V-Max over 39.8gr H4895) and she is consistently shooting .61"-.68" at 100 yards(minus the .264 bullet diameter).

My issue is I get a 1/4" high and 1/2" right flier out of a cold bore. It doesn't seem to matter if its a clean or fouled barrel. The barrel temp was 58 degrees (ambient air temp) when noticing this.

Ideas?
 
Cold shooter?:D

Seriously, thats close your guns accuracy range for the load you described
 
What barrel profile? Might try a contact point at the end of the stock . Did you break the barrel in as krieger said in the info? Might see what krieger has to say, they might have better idea than anyone here.
 
It a #11 1.25 straight contour. With that barrel diameter I can't see it being a barrel issue - 1 round, and not a very stiff one at that, shouldn't make any difference.

Weird thing is I'm getting ~3190fps with an ES of 9 on my 5 shot groups. 1st round is right in there numerically with the others.

I think I'm going to take everything off(sans barrel) and put it all back together. I am reasonably certain I used blue Locktite on everything the first time, but it never hurts to double check.

I'll also load up some heavier bullets to see if that makes a difference.

Barrel has been broken in properly per Krieger's instructions, as evidenced by its very easy cleanup. After 50 rounds Saturday it took a quick brush and just a few patches to come out clean.

Thanks again - we'll get this figured out!
 
You may want to try the jb paste and steel wool trick, if it's a new barrel.. accuracy systems does that to all their new barrels, or recomends it and theirs are top of the line...I've been able to fix a few issues with JB
 
Is there oil or solvent in the bore at the first shot? I had one rifle that liked a patch with spit run through it before the first round....

Also,,,, are you single feeding or mag feeding the rounds? Sometimes small variations in the feed ramp area can cause the rounds from one side of the mag to impact a little differently than the other rounds. Just like the rounds in the mag may have a slightly changed COL due to recoil which the first round does not experience.
 
The bullet wieght your shooting is what , a 95 gr. Sounds right for 3100fps. Barrel twist is 1-9 to 1-10 for light bullets? 1-8 would be a heavy bullet twist.
 
It's a 1-9, single shot sled epoxied in place. I think I'm going to rebed the lug as well. The stock design is 100% free float forward of the action(about 1" of float), so shimming/adding a contact point is really not feasible.

Per another suggestion I'm going to streth her legs a bit and see if the groups get better at longer range.

I've used Tubb's final finish before on other barrels - mabe the JB bore past trick will do it on this one. Still not thinking its the barrel...maybe just the shooter?
 
Krieger makes some of the very best barrels out there not likely to find fault with the barrel. Maybe slow down your load or a heavier bullet and see what happens. Good luck
 
Bummer, cold barrel is the first shot. That's the one that counts unless you are a paper puncher who can put down "sighters" every time. If you are field shooting, I'd say compensate on round one and then move on. Maybe it will all settle down with a few hundred rounds though it?
 
I wouldn't use any bore paste on your Krieger. JB is nothing but a mild form of lapping compound and your Krieger probably doesn't need it.

Before you take your first shot, after cleaning the bore, do you use a few patches to get as much of the solvent/lube out of the bore as you can? Try making sure that the bore is dry before you start shooting.

Odds are that your problem, if you want to call it that, is not the fault of the barrel. The guys at Krieger are not infallible, but they do crank out some nice stuff.
 
Thanks for all the advice. I grabbed the neighbor on my way back out to the range. I set him up on the rest and bag and let him shoot 2 5 shot strings. No cold flier. I think I'm a victim of my own excitement here. This is far and away the nicest rifle I'll most likely ever own, and it was getting to me. So as it turns out, the jerk behind the trigger jerk was the issue!

I was DEFINITELY jerking the trigger on the first round. Jerking caused the up-and-right first round in my strings. I concentrated on the remainder of my strings and shot a best of .383" and a worst of .512", all rounds touching.
 
I didn't think it was the Krieger barrel. I have three Krieger barrels and two of them (third not on the action yet) don't suffer from the "cold bore" jitters. I didn't' shoot my match rifle for almost three months, but the first shot out of the barrel after that lay off was an X at 300 yards in an F-Class match. I shot a 149-4X on that target. The X ring is 1.4" in diameter. If you're worried about oil in the bore, you can soak a couple of patches in rubbing alcohol and run them through the bore before the first shot. Personally, I don't do that.
 
My cleaning routine is a brush with Butch's 5x through the bore, patches until no discoloration is noted, a patch with Butchs, repeat patching until no discoloration, a patch with Kroil, let soak for 15 minutes, and patch out clean. Never had the cold bore flier issue on a centerfire until now. But then again - its been years since I had "target fever"!
 
Krieger barrels are so easy to clean. I just use a nylon brush with some CLP (four or five passes to remove carbon), a couple of patches with CLP followed by a clean patch with CLP for storage or a dry patch if I'm going to shoot. Hand lapped barrels will spoil you very quickly. Even my hand lapped AI AW barrel is ridiculously smooth ... feels like a Krieger.
 
Kriegers are great...but I think a few of a you have a little too much confidence in them.. I have witnessed two kriegers that had to have the crowns recut, and a little jb and a few other things done to them... one was a 308 and it was a custom builder who had about six identical builds and two of them would not shoot...this was one of many trips with these two rifles.. we used jb on the bore, and it cleaned the groups up a lot and eventually he had the crowns recut... couldn't even sell the rifles till the barrels got lined out...I'm not saying there are anything wrong with kriegers..I like them, but don't assume it CAN'T be the barrel.... sounds like operator error this time though
 
suzukisam Unless you take the time and money to send your rifle to kreiger for them to fit your barrel you are at the mercy of the smithy doing the work. A screwed up crown or chamber or finish detail will end up being the smithies fault . Don't blame kreiger for some smithies screw up
 
wow that was a lot of assumptions, in one post! they were ar barrels and they were done by krieger.. but you knew that.. the whole lot of 8 or 10 barrels shot fine.. two didn't... krieger makes a top notch barrel and I'm not going to start an argument about whether they are good or not, cause they are great! But to assume nothing can be wrong with one is incorrect. as I stated accuracy systems make out of this world stuff and even they use jb on their rifles as a normal break in. they also use steel wool, which seems crazy to me but it works... and I have seen it work on many top of the line barrels..

so hardluk, thanks but I know all about "smithies"...
 
I have a .270 that when new was producing fliers. I fooled with different bullet weights till I found the magic combo. It sounds like you have a great set up rifle. I would try different bullets untill you find the one that your shooter likes. Remember, two of the same identical guns will still be different. Keep on trying!!!!
 
Some of my guns exhibit the first round or cold bore fliers, some not. My last two 22.lr guns shot to a different point of aim on a cold bore. My current CZ 452 FS shoots about 3moa to the 11 oclock position after every pause for magazine loading. I had a Walther G22 that would walk itself in from far right to center over the first 3 shots. Interestingly, both guns had forward contact with the stock due to their designs.. maybe that has something to do with it.

I just learned to predict it, and took great pride in placing those first shots on target.

Anyone know what causes it? Its clearly heat related, right?
 
Chrome - in my case it had nothing to do with heat. A 1.250" barrel takes much more than 1 round to make it susceptible to heat. I was so darn excited to be shooting my "Grail" rifle that I wasn't paying enough attention on breathing, trigger control, and putting the shot where I wanted that I caused the fliers. Once I slowed that first shot down my groups improved appreciably and my flier issue resolved itself.
 
Fat_46, don't feel bad. Whenever I get out to the range, I'm so excited that it usually takes me five rounds just to settle down. About the last month or so, I started easing myself into the day with something other than my bolt gun. Even a few rounds though the .22 helps to settle me down.
 
the first day out to the range this year, I was so excited to shoot my "baby" I couldn't hardly settle down.. I blew through 25 rnds and never did lay down a good group. after that was out of my blood things got better the next time
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top