Cold bore shots more accurate?

[Monkeyleg]

I have a video with my Remington 700 Police posted on YouTube. In it I talk about how to get tight groups out of a rifle.

Somebody left a comment (multiple comments, actually) that cold bore shots are more accurate. I've never heard that and, in fact, have been taught the opposite: to get a tight group, you need to control as many variables as possible, including barrel temperature.

So, who's right?

 

[unwise11]

Your rifle decides that, Not you.
My Howa shoots best with a coldish barrel in my cases, but does fine when warm, not hot though.

 

[JohnBT]

Years ago I almost purchased an old (50 years?) Holland & Holland ad that suggested, or maybe reminded is a better word, cleaning the oil from the bore to improve the chances of getting an accurate first shot.

I should have bought it.

I've frequently seen the first shot go one place and the rest of the shots from the mag go into a nice group an inch or two away. Is it the condition of the bore (clean vs. dirty) or the bore temp? I dunno.

John

 

[627PCFan]

Isnt cold bore "the 1st and only shot until the barrel fully cools down to ambient"? Are you measuing accuracy of truly cold bore shots? That could take some time.

+1 JohnBT. No oil in the barrel for a good 1st shot

 

[AK103K]

Wouldnt you zero to the cold bore shot, especially if its most likely going to be the "only" shot?

If youre shooting for groups, who cares about the cold bore, warm the gun up and shoot.

 

[243winxb]

The first shot goes a little high compared to the next 4 warm shots. Some factory barrels will "walk" the point of impact, if they get to hot.

 

[Art Eatman]

I've tended to fire the "fouling shot" to burn any oil out of the barrel, before setting out on a hunting trip. I've done that before testing for group size, as well.

However, my pet '06 and my .243 don't really seem to do any better with such an effort. Generally--remembering that I live in a dry climate--I run a patch through the barrel with very little oil on it before putting the rifle away. Not much oil to burn out...

Beginning with a cold barrel, as long as my first three shots are sub-MOA, I figure I'm ready to hunt.

 

[Daniel Boone]

I pretty much have to agree with John BT on this one.
I mostly disregard the first shot with most rifles and concern myself more with the 2nd - 5th shot out of the barrel.

It has nothing to do with the temperature of the barrel at the time of the shot.
It has to do more with the fouling in the barrel having something to do with the accuracy.
In most all of my rifles (6) they all shoot better once the barrel has been fouled.

As John has said, the first shot might not hit well at all and then all the rest will be where the rifle shoots once the barrel is dirty.

That is a real easy situation to remedy - you just shoot a couple of shots at target practice and then not clean the bore until after your season is over.

 

[sansone]

my buddy pulls a dry boresnake through his gun before hunting, I mean RIGHT before, only to remove any dust or oil. He sights-in his hunting rifles for that first cold, clean, (and dry) shot. // When I'm working up a load (punching paper) I ignore that first fouling shot. I'll also avoid touching the scope at all, just looking for tight groups and not interested in where the holes are on paper.
I don't believe cold shots are more accurate, just different POI

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

.

My friend really believes in a fouling shot before shooting for accuracy.



Whenever he deer hunts he shoots once before to foul the barrel.

.

 

[zfk55]

Our experience has proven that a barrel that is hBN treated and firing only hBN inpact coated projectiles means shot number one and shot number 50 go to the same nominal POI, every time.

Latigo

 

[biggameballs]

My Winchester 70 featherweight throws the 1st shot about 2" off from the next shots and I believe it has nothing to do with the temp but everything to do with the oil in the barrel. Once the oil is gone I get 1-1.5 inch groups all day long

 

[MCMXI]

"Cold bore shot" is a misnomer .... as Art stated, "fouling shot" is a more accurate term. You can shoot three rounds through just about any rifle within 30 seconds with no appreciable increase in barrel temperature over the string. If you are seeing a significant difference in the POI, it's a fouling issue rather than a heat issue.

As for fouling shots, I see no difference at all with the first shot out of my .308 Win with a Krieger barrel and I'm not talking 100 yards. I shot a match in October at 300 yards, and the first shot after the rifle had sat for three months was an X. I keep my barrels lightly oiled and simply run a dry patch through them before use. I shot a 149-4X (15 shots for record) on that stage with the first sighter and 15 shots for record inside 2.6". This is one of the reasons why Krieger barrels have been used to set numerous world records.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

"Cold bore shot" is a misnomer .... as Art stated, "fouling shot" is a more accurate term. You can shoot three rounds through just about any rifle within 30 seconds with no appreciable increase in barrel temperature over the string. If you are seeing a significant difference in the POI, it's a fouling issue rather than a heat issue.

As for fouling shots, I see no difference at all with the first shot out of my .308 Win with a Krieger barrel and I'm not talking 100 yards. I shot a match in October at 300 yards, and the first shot after the rifle had sat for three months was an X. I keep the my barrels lightly oiled and simply run a dry patch through them before use. I shot a 149-4X (15 shots for record) on that stage with the first sighter and 15 shots for record inside 2.6". This is one of the reasons why Krieger barrels have been used to set numerous world records.

By running a dry patch you are basically doing what a fouling shot does IMHO.


.

 

[MCMXI]

By running a dry patch you are basically doing what a fouling shot does IMHO.

A friend of mine runs a patch soaked in alcohol through his barrel before a match! I tried that once but didn't see any difference compared to a dry patch. The consistency of Krieger barrels is well established and is due in part to the finish in the barrel that doesn't pick up much in the way of fouling, either copper or powder. Some rifles need fouling to run well but those barrels often have other issues to worry about.

 

[Float Pilot]

When we zeroed our Department Issue trunk rifles. We always registered where the first shot (cold bore with a trace of solvent in the barrel, would go, and where the rest of the group would go.
A patrol car trunk rifle would sit in the case for months and then have to possibly make one clean shot through the target's eye socket. You don't get a chance for fouling shots.
So we cleaned after every shot and let the rifle cool down for a long time to get it zeroed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now I occasionally compete with a m/96 full military Swede Mauser. It does not like to be cool. It also does not like to be real hot.... It will shoot the best groups when the barrel is warm enough to touch but not any hotter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

On the other hand, I also have a Swede CG-63 Target rifle... It prefers to be cold when making its best shots. It also likes the barrel to be squeaky clean to shoot the best groups.

IF ALL RIFLES WERE THE SAME, WHAT FUN WOULD THAT BE ?????

 

[MCMXI]

For many rifles with barrels of poor to average construction, and I'm talking about the chamber, throat, lands, grooves and crown, they may start off with fouling issues which then become thermal issues.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Depends on the rifle. My heavy bench rig doesn't really care as long as the bore is fouled and dry.

But take a remington 7400 a rifle renowned for it's inaccuracy and I can only shoot decent groups that are always stone cold bore shots (20 minute intervals) that will look like those shot from a remington 700

My take on the matter is if your cold bore shot is different on a bolt action you need to review either your cleaning procedure/habits or go over your rifles bedding. Now on a rifle that has a bunch of stuff attached to the bbl such as an autoloader or levergun all bets are off as due to the different expansion rates of the various parts you can BET on POI shifts as the barrel warms


As noted above cold bore shoots and non fouled bore shots are two different matters

 

[flashhole]

I'm curious as to how many of the responders to this thread have done controlled tests on multiple guns to make a meaningful determination before posting? Data speaks volumes, conjecture is just that ... conjecture. Not looking to flame anyone but seems there are lots of opinions on this with nothing to support them.

 

[MCMXI]

I'm curious as to how many of the responders to this thread have done controlled tests on multiple guns to make a meaningful determination before posting? Data speaks volumes, conjecture is just that ... conjecture. Not looking to flame anyone but seems there are lots of opinions on this with nothing to support them.

I'm curious as to how "controlled tests on multiple guns" is relevant to an individual's rifle. Most here seem to have a good idea as to how their rifle reacts to fouling and/or heat and that's the important thing ... right? If you shoot regularly, you get a fairly good idea as to how your rifles shoot, how they foul, how they deal with heat and how easy or hard they are to clean.

 

[Hangingrock]

There is and always has been a difference between accuracy and precision. I’ll opt for precision as opposed to accuracy. Wondering small groups may equate to accuracy while a larger group to the point of aim no matter the condition would be precision.

 

[MCMXI]

I’ll opt for precision as opposed to accuracy. Wondering small groups may equate to accuracy while a larger group to the point of aim no matter the condition would be precision.

You have that backwards. In terms of shooting, accuracy is how close you are to the POA (points on a scored target). Precision is how repeatable your shots are (group size). A small group in the 6 ring is precise but not accurate. A larger group centered around the X ring is more accurate but less precise. A small group centered around the X ring is accurate AND precise.

 

[Hangingrock]

1858 You have that backwards.

No I do not. . Accuracy by the multitudes is usually measured by group size. Precision is placing your shot to the POA no matter the condition clean, dirty, cold, hot, and etcetera.

 

[jpwilly]

My clean barrel shots vary dramatically between different rifles. The Swiss K-31 shoots same place clean or dry cold or warm (never have gotten it hot), the Savage 10 likes a dirty bore and won't setteldown after a good cleaning for 5-10 shots due to a poor factory barrel that shoots well but doesn't like to be clean.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Few years ago before I moved here, I did a 7 day test with both my 7mm.08 and my .300wm. Had a target set up in my field, every morning at 8am (was early fall and the weather that whole week was very consistent) I would put a round downrange at 100 yards from each one from a rested position off my back deck. Clean bore shots from both weapons. Dry patched before each shot till the patch came out clean.

The 7mm.08 held sub MOA for all 7 shots. The .300wm, not so good. Average for it was 2 MOA

The Barrel for the 7mm.08 was a Hart barrel on a Savage 110 action glass bedded in a Boyd stock.

The .300wm was a TC. Pro hunter 26 inch barrel on PH frame.

I later got a 7mm.08 barrel for that frame and it closely competed with my other 7mm.08 until it got a little hot then it walks a bit. BUT how often do you "heat up" a single shot?