Well here's my take on it; since I know about the gun, its history of ownership and what it is; also since I am not trying to sell it or get it appraised I really don't have to prove it's worth or originality to anyone. What anyone else "feels or believes" about if it is original was not the question I asked in my post but "Should I shoot it or not"? Thanks anyway for your opinion.
Collector rifle question
- Thread starter TIMC
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Well here's my take on it; since I know about the gun, its history of ownership and what it is; also since I am not trying to sell it or get it appraised I really don't have to prove it's worth or originality to anyone. What anyone else "feels or believes" about if it is original was not the question I asked in my post but "Should I shoot it or not"? Thanks anyway for your opinion.
Actually in order to give a accurate opinion of wether to shoot it or not originality does play a huge part in the answer.
Seems to me you dont want to know the truth about the rifle, which is your right.
You cant have it both ways
Seems to me you dont want to know the truth about the rifle, which is your right.
You cant have it both ways
You miss the entire point my friend, I already know it is original and do not need to find that out so it is not a matter of "Please tell me if it's real".
So you see you really don't need to know yourself to answer the question; it's pretty simple really. If it makes you fell better think of it like this....
If you had an original unfired, unissued 1903 would you shoot it? Or would I hypothetically have to prove it is original and unfired to get an answer?
So you see you really don't need to know yourself to answer the question; it's pretty simple really. If it makes you fell better think of it like this....
If you had an original unfired, unissued 1903 would you shoot it? Or would I hypothetically have to prove it is original and unfired to get an answer?
P-32
Member
Tim I understand where you are at. Dad Said not to shoot it. If I had a rifle such as yours, I would not just come here and ask. I think before putting rounds down range with it, I would ry to find a respected collecter and have him look at what you have and go with his opinion. We here at THR can not hold and feel your rifle.
I bought a M-1 which I felt was unfired. A collector friend of mine pointed out the small rhings which showed while in outstanding condition, was a rebuild. It had few rounds though the barrel since being rebarreled. Thankfully I was not hurt and the rifle is still worth about twice what I paid for it. But I shoot it. I fire it in John C. Garand matches and enjoy the rifle in this manner.
I bought a M-1 which I felt was unfired. A collector friend of mine pointed out the small rhings which showed while in outstanding condition, was a rebuild. It had few rounds though the barrel since being rebarreled. Thankfully I was not hurt and the rifle is still worth about twice what I paid for it. But I shoot it. I fire it in John C. Garand matches and enjoy the rifle in this manner.
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My dad never said don't shoot it and he never really told me why he never did. I don't really understand how taking it to a collector would make one but of difference in the question I was trying to get opinions on. Say a collector said it was pristine, unfired, unused, never ever ever ever issued, never never never rebuilt, marched with, twirled or looked at by a soldier.
Would you shoot it? <----This is the question I was trying to get opinions on :banghead:
Would you shoot it? <----This is the question I was trying to get opinions on :banghead:
It does not hurt a rifle to shoot it. Bang away and then clean it, or don't clean it. With modern ammunition you don't need to clean it but every once in a while. It has the hump of a WWI, WWII rifle but no finger groves. So it may have been restocked. No matter it's a newer Springfield. It's worth some money...maybe $700 in today's market which is weird. I have a similar rifle that I paid $150 for 30 years ago.
Don't worry about hurting the rifle by shooting it, and then shoot it. They are fun to shoot. Give it to your daughter's husband when that finally happens. He'll love you for it. Just don't shoot him with it! LOL
Don't worry about hurting the rifle by shooting it, and then shoot it. They are fun to shoot. Give it to your daughter's husband when that finally happens. He'll love you for it. Just don't shoot him with it! LOL
P-32
Member
Tim, The reason I suggested finding a collector would to get thier opinion if the value would be lowered by firing it. If I had an unfired/unissued 03 or M-1 I would have to think long and hard before pulling the trigger. I would not shoot a Winchester Model 12 new, still in the box but the same Winchester Model 12 with few rounds through it,would get shot for example.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Sorry Tim but I have to agree with Orlando here. You and Dad could easily be mistaken about its condition. If it's actually been issued and obviously fired, then I would shoot the piss out of it. If it truly is unissued and has not been fired since proofing, then it is worth a lot more on the collector market and shooting it will devalue it. I would have to decide if I was going to leave it as-is and sell it to buy something I could enjoy or just shoot it and hunt with it anyway. I won't have a rifle I won't shoot and unless it's worth several thousand dollars, I'd shoot it, hunt with it and possibly even have a custom rifle built out of it. It's not like it's Dad's old hunting rifle that he killed untold numbers of critters with. He didn't spend 50yrs afield with it. He didn't even use it in the war. So IMHO, it's just a keepsake he left in a closet somewhere and would have little true sentimental value.
Possible you've got a rebarreled 1903?
All WW2 Remingtons I've seen are marked 03-A3.
Also looks to me like the stock has been varnished. I'd say it's probably a shooter, but without a good look at the markings I can't say I'd go out and shooting a thousand rounds.
I've fired my minty 1903A3 a lot.
All WW2 Remingtons I've seen are marked 03-A3.
Also looks to me like the stock has been varnished. I'd say it's probably a shooter, but without a good look at the markings I can't say I'd go out and shooting a thousand rounds.
I've fired my minty 1903A3 a lot.
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USSR
Member
The original contract that Remington received called for a standard M1903 rifle, and these early Remingtons are marked 1903, not 03-A3. While Remington was making them, they suggest to the gov't some "shortcuts" that would speed up production. The gov't allowed these modifications to the original M1903, and the 03-A3 was born. I have an unissued, unfired Smith-Corona 03-A3 that I will not fire for the following reason. When I received the rifle, it was completely in cosmoline. I removed the cosmoline from the outside of the rifle and inside the bolt, but I left the cosmoline in the bore so as to preserve it's "virginity".
To answer your question TIMC, assuming your bore is not full of cosmoline, I would shoot it.Don
Luchtaine
Member
I'd go with USSR if its not full of the original cosmoline, you'd only be able to sell it based on condition, not as unfired. So just take good care of it.
The difference between and absolutely mint rifle and one that has been shot and cared for are very similar to me. One can barely tell if a rifle has been shot, if it's been well cared for and cleaned properly. Oh, a little smear of brass on the bolt face maybe, but you can easily remove that.
While it is a matter of choice, I believe that guns were made to be shot and I shoot all of mine...if they are shootable and I can find ammo that is.
In addition I never buy a gun for investment. I buy them because I like them. I collect them and own hundreds. I very seldom sell one.
While it is a matter of choice, I believe that guns were made to be shot and I shoot all of mine...if they are shootable and I can find ammo that is.
In addition I never buy a gun for investment. I buy them because I like them. I collect them and own hundreds. I very seldom sell one.
BrocLuno
Member
Couple of things come to mind (and I have a Remington O3-A3 from my dad on the bench) - how does it shoot? If it'll group around an inch at 100, that would raise the value to me. I'm not suggesting putting hundreds of rounds down range. But I'd sure like to know if it's a real shooter or just a looker?
I'd also field strip it and make sure all the lubes are correct. The stock is good and there is no rust hiding under the wood? If all is well, a few rounds down range ain't going to change it much. These old girls can handle thousands of rounds before they show much wear.
I'd also field strip it and make sure all the lubes are correct. The stock is good and there is no rust hiding under the wood? If all is well, a few rounds down range ain't going to change it much. These old girls can handle thousands of rounds before they show much wear.
That is a different story. If my dad gave me a gun and asked that I never shoot it then that is what I'd do. He did give me a gun and then said, "shoot it all you want". So I did.
Even though he's been gone some time, I'd never go against his wishes.
Jim Watson
Member
If kept unshot, or even unshot-since-arsenal-overhaul-for-reserve-when-replaced-by-a-Garand, it will be worth more in resale value when your daughter sells off your stuff.
In the present economy that would not be a lot more and you had just as well shoot it, clean it, and enjoy it.
But in the long run, pristine condition could matter more. Just look at what the speculators have done to the prices of what I still think of as army surplus 1911s.
On the other hand, by the time you expire, it might be illegal for her to inherit, own, or sell a firearm and it would be worth nothing.
All in all, I would shoot it. You probably won't put much wear and tear on it before you have had enough of a .30-06 with steel buttplate and complicated sight.
In the present economy that would not be a lot more and you had just as well shoot it, clean it, and enjoy it.
But in the long run, pristine condition could matter more. Just look at what the speculators have done to the prices of what I still think of as army surplus 1911s.
On the other hand, by the time you expire, it might be illegal for her to inherit, own, or sell a firearm and it would be worth nothing.
All in all, I would shoot it. You probably won't put much wear and tear on it before you have had enough of a .30-06 with steel buttplate and complicated sight.
Jim Watson
Member
It's all right Allen, we've taken care of that.
The scary ones were made at Springfield and Rock Island prior to 1919.
And the really doubtful ammunition was made during WW I by a second class contractor.
Remington did not start making 1903s until late 1941 and used either nickel or manganese steel, which are fine for any usual load.
The scary ones were made at Springfield and Rock Island prior to 1919.
And the really doubtful ammunition was made during WW I by a second class contractor.
Remington did not start making 1903s until late 1941 and used either nickel or manganese steel, which are fine for any usual load.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Yes.
A book called Hatchers Notebook, first printed in 1947, outlines 137 instances of 03 blow-ups in detail while in Army service.
All but 2 of them were with low-number Springfield and Rock Island receivers.
68 of them were caused by burst low-number receivers.
The remaining 69 accidents were due to blown cartridge cases blowing the receiver, or burst barrels.
The auther, Major General Julian S. Hatcher, was a high-up Army Ordanance officer during the time period when the low-number Springfield was found to be unsafe, and had a hand in most of the accident investigations.
I think the reason we don't hear about it happening anymore is most everyone knows better then to shoot them now.
rc
A book called Hatchers Notebook, first printed in 1947, outlines 137 instances of 03 blow-ups in detail while in Army service.
All but 2 of them were with low-number Springfield and Rock Island receivers.
68 of them were caused by burst low-number receivers.
The remaining 69 accidents were due to blown cartridge cases blowing the receiver, or burst barrels.
The auther, Major General Julian S. Hatcher, was a high-up Army Ordanance officer during the time period when the low-number Springfield was found to be unsafe, and had a hand in most of the accident investigations.
I think the reason we don't hear about it happening anymore is most everyone knows better then to shoot them now.
rc
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Since the stock of the rifle doesn't have finger groves it is likely a factory re-work. Until late in WWII almost all, if not all, 03's had finger groves on the stock. Did the C stock have finger grooves? I think so.
What we haven't heard from this gent is if he really wants to shoot the rifle. If he does then I'd say shoot it. Just don't drop it. The rifle has already been shot to be proofed. It does not harm a rifle to shoot, just don't abuse it. An 1876 Winchester with a slightly worn bore is worth as much as an 1876 Winchester with a totally pure bore. Neither are affordable btw. They'll both cost you 5 grand.
An 03 that is shot will keep it's minty bore for a long time and after lots of shooting.
It's all about enjoying the ownership of the rifle. If one loves it hanging on the wall and calling it mint, then hang it on the wall. If one enjoys shooting it, then shoot the crap out of it. Just don't abuse it. Will it's value be affected in the future? Not much.
What we haven't heard from this gent is if he really wants to shoot the rifle. If he does then I'd say shoot it. Just don't drop it. The rifle has already been shot to be proofed. It does not harm a rifle to shoot, just don't abuse it. An 1876 Winchester with a slightly worn bore is worth as much as an 1876 Winchester with a totally pure bore. Neither are affordable btw. They'll both cost you 5 grand.
An 03 that is shot will keep it's minty bore for a long time and after lots of shooting.
It's all about enjoying the ownership of the rifle. If one loves it hanging on the wall and calling it mint, then hang it on the wall. If one enjoys shooting it, then shoot the crap out of it. Just don't abuse it. Will it's value be affected in the future? Not much.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
So had all the ones that blew up.
rc
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