Colorado Church Shootings--Legal Question

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Flyboy

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From Neal Boortz:
Just a quick update on Jeanne Assam – the woman at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, who carried a concealed weapon and saved, quite possibly, hundreds of people from death at the hands of a teenage whacko. Well if Jeanne had been a licensed security guard at the church, it would have been illegal for her to carry the Beretta she used to stop the shooter. The government restricts security guards to only using revolvers. This means that if the Church had hired a government-approved security guard, instead of a private citizen, there would be dozens of additional funerals in Colorado last week.
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Interesting point. If true, it would seem to be an easy way to refute the claim that she was a "security guard." (Not to mention pointing out that semi-autos are not the root of all evil.)
 
I'm with Neal right up to this point:

This means that if the Church had hired a government-approved security guard, instead of a private citizen, there would be dozens of additional funerals in Colorado last week.
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I imagine that 6 rounds of .357mag would have stopped him just as easily as the 9mm he was hit with.
 
Looks like he means "no revolver == not a paid, professional, uniformed, licensed Colorado-stamp-of-approval private security person".
 
What claim are you trying to refute? Are you saying she is a liar?
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Many antis are trying to downplay Ms. Assam's actions because she's a "professional" ... just as there's nothing special about a cop shooting a badguy, a "Security Guard" is also not special and thus her actions don't have anything to do with the debate about armed citizens.

Flyboy's point is that she was just an armed citizen and not a "Security Professional" therefore her actions DO illustrate the usefulness of an armed citizenry and poke major holes in the arguments of anti gun folk.


Now I think Neal Boortz point is that had she been a "Security Professional" Colorado Springs city ordnance would have had her armed with "only" a revolver (I think he underestimates the stopping power of .357mag)
 
Wow, a former cop who has worked for multiple police departments and is working as a volunteer armed security guard isn't a security professional? Interesting.

She is probably more of a security professional than most paid security guards.

I don't see that in Flyboy's post at all. He seems to be trying to refute the notion that she was a "security guard."
 
Boortz is an idiot, but Zundfolge catches my point exactly: she's not a professional guard, just another citizen with a gun. And that's what has the media running scared.
 
Wow, a former cop who has worked for multiple police departments and is working as a volunteer armed security guard isn't a security professional?
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A volunteer is by definition NOT a professional.


pro·fes·sion·al /prəˈfɛʃənl/
–adjective
Following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain.
–noun
A person who belongs to one of the professions, esp. one of the learned professions.

vol·un·teer /ˌvɒlənˈtɪər/
–noun
A person who performs a service willingly and without pay.



She is probably more of a security professional than most paid security guards.
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You're missing the point by about 35 MOA.

IF she were a paid, professional security guard then her shooting the badguy is NOT evidence that armed citizens can stop crime.

HOWEVER, if she's just a volunteer ... simply an armed citizen like the rest of us (and not all the members of the New Life armed volunteer security detail are LEOs or ex LEOs) then her shooting Matt Murray PROVES that armed citizens are a good thing. Which is something that antis have always tried to claim is a myth.
 
Zundfolge isn't trying to denigrate her skills.

What he's pointing out is that she is a citizen volunteer.

That she is a citizen like any of the rest of us takes nothing away from the fact that she reacted to the situation in a professional manner.
 
I viewed a press conference online wherein the church pastor stated she was a member of the church volunteering for security service at a service after attending a previous service.

http://www.9news.com/video/player.aspx?aid=45268&bw

He also said they didn't hire "mercenaries". So she was NOT a paid security guard, no matter how the press wants to spin it. She is a former LEO, so probably has either a LEOSA carry permit or the standard CO "concealed weapon permit".
 
Yes, its an old city ordnance ... I think it was written back when police didn't trust automatics so they wanted to make sure that private security folk weren't packing those "dangerous" automatics.
 
It's hard to believe that the ordinance is still around but it is. I am in Denver, just a few miles from the Arvada YWAM shooting that happened the same day. It was a shock when I turned on the news that morning and saw what happened. People though I was an extremist for carrying my 1911 to church until that day. It's amazing how slow the general public is when it comes to catching on to the truth. :banghead:
 
Well here in Michigan, Armed Security is limited to a .38 cal revolver with a barrel length of no less than 6 inches. They also may not draw the revolver out of it's holster until they are being fired upon.
 
Well here in Michigan, Armed Security is limited to a .38 cal revolver with a barrel length of no less than 6 inches.
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Used to be the same way in Georgia. Armed private security agencies were permitted to use no weapons heavier than a .38 Special revolver. IIRC, they could issue .357s, but only .38 Spls could be used in them. :banghead: Don't know whether the law is still in effect.

They also may not draw the revolver out of it's holster until they are being fired upon.
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That's just insane. Cite? :scrutiny:
 
So Jeanne Assan was a "volunteer security guard," who was "just an armed citizen" who happened to have had police training with multiple police departments. She may have been a volunteer in that particular situation, but she brought to that situation her professional skills. Once she left the police department, she didn't leave her training and skills behind with her badge. She would have had training that professional security guards likely would not have had, plus would have had considerable experience dealing with such confrontations. She admits in the video to having dealt with numerous suspects at gunpoint in the past and having made numerous arrests. How many of the other non-professional volunteer security guards bring that capacity to the job?

She may have been a volunteer armed citizen serving in the capacity of security guard for her church, but she brought to that capacity skills that the majority of the rest of us don't have because we haven't been cops.
 
So if something like this happened to any of us common, former military types, the headlines likely would read:

"Former, highly trained military church member with extensive firearms training and knowledge saves many from imminent death in a house of worship."
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The press does what the press does best... fabricate and twists the facts to suit their agenda that government is the solution and only entity capable of handling a crisis.
 
I know first-hand that Jeanne's law enforcement background has become a major point of contention for the antis' mantra. I posted a topic related to the church shooting on another (non-gun) forum, and got some disturbing comments about how she was obviously a trained professional, and how "bubba joe citizen" couldn't be trusted with a gun.
 
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