Colt Cobra & the Broad Side of a Barn

[Mark G.]

Am I the only one out there who cannot hit the broad side of a barn with a Colt Cobra 38 Special. Well it is not really that bad (nothing outside of the 8 ring), but I am not near as accurate as with my other pistols. Granted the shorter barrel makes a difference. It has a pretty good kick and I have rubber grips on it. I have been using Winchester 158 gr. LRN. Any ideas or suggestions to improve accuracy and reduce the kick would be appreciated. Thanks guys and gals.

 

[dfariswheel]

Aluminum guns do kick more, and short barreled guns are always harder to shoot accurately than longer barrels.

Since you already have rubber grips, you can try the Pachmayr "Professional", which is slightly larger, is more form fitting, and has finger grooves. The larger size and better fit helps on recoil and accuracy.

In the end, not all guns "suit" all people. Some people are deadly shots with one gun, and another person can't reliably hit their own foot with one.

One consolation: If you do manage to master the Cobra, you will be deadly with most any other longer revolver.

 

[Jim K]

DA or SA? Colts are nice on single action, but "stack" in DA firing which makes hitting even harder than it normally is with a light, short barrel revolver. You can overcome this, but it takes a lot of practice. The plus side of that gun is good sights.

Jim

 

[GrayBear]

Honest Question?

I don't keep up much with the newer gun models. I'm in my 70's and have had most of my guns for a long time. One of them, now sold to an LEO as a back-up, was a Colt's Detective Special, a .38 Special w/2" barrel. That one was made in 1938. Accuracy was best described if feet, not yards, but it would do the job it was designed for.

Isn't the Cobra about the same gun with an aluminum frame? May I ask at what range you are shooting? Almost by definition mine was a short-range "hideout" gun with very basic sights.

BTW, the LEO says they must qualify, for legal reasons, with any weapon they might carry. The qualifying distance for a 2" barrelled .38 Special is 15 feet.

Just curious -

GrayBear

 

[Jim K]

Yes, the Cobra is the Dick Special with an alloy frame. 15-25 feet is about the range for good accuracy; 2" barrel revolvers were not intended for long range, though most experienced shooters would have no problem hitting a man-sized target at 25 yards or even further.

Jim

 

[Mark G.]

Graybear,

You are correct the Cobra is an aluminum frame Det. Spcl. I am shooting at 21 feet. Next time I'll try 15 feet to see if I am more accurate, it might make me feel better anyway!!!

 

[nitesite]

My experience with the Colt Cobra is that there are two bothersome features inherent with it.

First is the increasingly heavier stacking of the trigger as the mainspring tensions. It makes accurate shooting in double-action shooting more, well, 'difficult'.

Second is that the grip and frame tends to place the web of my shooting hand much lower than, say, my S&W 442 Airweight Centennial. This causes more 'muzzle flip' in rapid fire with the Colt. The bore axis of the Centennial is more directly in line with my wrist and forearm, and produces less felt recoil and flip. With my best grip on the Colt, I find that any sideways pressure/torque on the trigger (no matter how hard I try as it gets heavier) also leads to pulling my shots to the right.

I enjoy shooting the Colt Cobra from a nostalgic perspective, but it is not my choice for accurate recoil management in an aluminum-framed small revolver.

Anyone else had similar experiences?????

nitesite

 

[Brian D.]

Mark, do you know the "ball and dummy" practice technique? Basically, you load a mixture of live and expended rounds (or snap caps) into the chambers, and turn the cylinder by hand a few clicks after closing it so that when you start firing, you won't know whether a click or BOOM! is coming up next. ( Load 1 live, 1 dead, 2 live, then 2 dead rds.) Helps teach you not to jerk or flinch in anticipation of recoil. This can really help out your DA revolver shooting. Naturally, do the loading and cylinder indexing, as well as shooting, with the gun pointed in a safe direction, all other safety rules apply, etc. etc.

 

[Lone Star]

Stand inside the barn. It will be much easier to hit it when you fire.

Having said that, Colts often don't shoot to the sights. Try close up, see where it's hitting, and move back gradually from the target. If the sights are "off" too much, either have Colt turn the barrel to bring the sights in line or sell the gun, unless it's an investment or nostalgia item.

S&W snub .38's are very dangerous to the target even beyond 50 yards, and that's in my humble hands. Someone who can really shoot can lay 'em on a man at 100 yards plus, but energy will be down quite a bit at that range, although the bullet probably will cause death if it hits the right spot on a person.

Massad Ayoob says that he can hit man-sized targets with a Det. Spcl at 100 yards, so get those sights checked.

Lone Star

 

[emc]

In speaking with the guys at Cylinder & Slide Gunsmithing, they've explained that the stacking that can occur with Colt D-frame revolvers is due to the leaf spring being compressed as the trigger is pulled in such a way that the two leaves actually wind up touching. This effectively thickens the spring, and the resulting tension. It can be corrected by a gunsmith

FWIW,

emc

 

[spook]

A shooting buddy of mine, an old bullseye shooter, took my model VI Dective Special and put 5 rounds slow double action in a group the size of the 9 ring in an NRA rapid fire 25 yd. target. The group was slightly high and left, but the group was there. I can't do it, but the gun can in the right hands.

 

[Erich]

I don't have a Cobra, I have an Agent from the mid-'70s (short-butted, better-finished version). It works perfectly well. Maybe you've got a bum steer? It happens.

 

[emc]

My Colt DSII has the same stacking problem that he described. From what Cylinder & Slide indicated, it's a pretty common problem. However, I don't recall that the late 1970s vintage Agent that I used to own suffered from this problem.

FWIW,

emc

 

[spook]

I had a Colt Agent the Army issued me. I thought I'd do better throwing it than trying to shoot somebody. Soon gave up on it and carried the 1911. Armorers couldn't do much with a revolver, but they turned out a sweet 1911.

 

[russlate]

Putting rubber grips on a revolver will increase group size over a good set of wood grips.

Try shooting lead wadcutters off a bench with wood grips single action. Colt snubs should theoretically outshoot the S&W snubs, as the short barrels lower velocities and the S&W's use a 1 in 18 something twist while the Colts use a 1 in 14.

Ayoob recounted that he'd been called as an expert witness as to whether a man who'd been shot holding a snubby was a legitimate threat at 18 or 20 some yards away. I believe the guy was holding an earlier Charter snub when shot.

He took 3 2" barreled exemplars ( Colt, Charter and Smith ) to the range, put up a target and after finding where to hold fired each for effect. Results were two shots on a man sized silhouette from 5 shots with the Charter, 3 of five with the Smith, and 4 of 6 with the Colt. He testified that based on his results, the guns could be fired accurately enough to be a threat out to 100 yards. A total of 9 hits out of 16 shots at 100 yards.

My 2 1/2" M19 could connect with six out of six with it's slightly better sights from rollover prone at 100 yards.

In the 70's when you only had six shots to do it with, it was amazing how many times you could hit the mark with every shot.

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

Making a Cobra and Diamondback accurate

My Fitz Pistol Grip Co that I was given in the 70's was founded in 1919 and was successful in designing grips for officers to shoot their undercover weapons more accurately to save their lives and to earn better monthly shooting pay. I retired and stopped production in 1979.

The Colt Cobra, Agent, Diamondback, Police Positive and Police Positive Special were known as "Knuckle Busters" from officers gaining a very sore center finger knuckle from practicing to try and improve their shooting scores.

Fitz solved the problem by filling in wood behind the trigger guard with their CV and DB pistol grips of wood then Duramite after WW2 then my current Walnut and Cherry wood grips in the 70's of which I have a handful left. The long gone Duramite grips show up regularly on E-bay.

I am long retired and am selling off my small file cabinet drawers archives.

Paul Jones

 

[Cosmoline]

Nice grips!! Got any of those for a second generation Police Pos. Special (short handle) you want to unload?

 

[Ala Dan]

Mark, my advice is simple:

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

Cobra Grips

What Fitz business was originally based on was the "Knuckle Busting" attributes that practice brought on with those pistols. It became common knowledge a LONG time ago probably before I was born. And passed on to me when I was given the company for a good deed.

Most short frame Cobra and Diamondback customers apply my long frame grip to their short frame Colt because of wanting to shoot much better. It is the same frame with essentially a piece cut off. Picture available.

Last year I attended a retirement community yard sale where there was a pair of original Diamondback grips. He said that he had bought better grips 25 years ago for his pistol at a San Jose gun show and the seller told him to keep the originals for when he ever sold the pistol. Well I had to see his better grips and it turned out I had sold them to him when I lived 300 miles away in Los Angeles but attended all the California Gun Shows.

I advised him to still keep the original grips and I have a picture of his Diamondback with its Duramite grips next to my hardwood grips made in 1979.

Practice does make perfect but not with "sore knuckles".

Fitz

The Duramite grips are all sold.
The older Diamondback, Cobra, Agent, Police Positive and Police Positive Special all have the same frame and grip size until WW2.

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

Leo Shooting Ranges

Early police department shooting ranges did not have all the conveniences we enjoy today and take for granted like Caswell equipment.

In California from my experience from the 50's I could shoot at any law enforcement range and no matter what I was carrying I had to shoot what the rangemaster had set up that day. Some ranges were always the same like the Los Angeles police department, 7 yard, 25 yard and 70's computerized theater. 60's Glendale PD range with LEO Rangemaster Gun Writer Ted Lane could surprise you by having you running, on a motorcycle or expect you to hit a 50 cent piece size at 7 yards firing from the hip 2 out of three shots with your 2, 4 or 6 inch weapons. Of the 8 ranges I normally shot at only two had a 7 yard range while other officers were firing the 25.

Most police departments only had 25 yard ranges and I shot on them all over during the Southern California Police Pistol Championships which I helped sponsor.

At most Departments that I became acquainted with besides shooting at a 7 yard distance there was an expectation that the officers with 2 inch weapons should be able to also shoot them effectively at 25 yards also.

Paul

 

[Marshall]

Is all this in single action?

In addition to moving the barn closer, training, practicing, etc; try different ammo, your gun may like something else a lot better.

 

[saltydog452]

shortie 38s and the barn door.

I'm amazed that revolvers shoot as well as they do. Projectiles coming from different cylinders, going through a bit of free-bore, being swaged down through a forcing cone, and each engaging the rifiling in a slightly different position in relation to the axis of the bore.

Add to that the smaller mechanical advantage of a shorter barrel, the gun moving slightly in your hand for each different shot fired and a tunnel for a rear sight.

The sights (loosely defined) were designed for 158 grain lead round nose bullets at a std velocity of about 750 fps for the older guns. Point of aim might not agree with point of impact for todays ammo.

Having said that, either my wife's Colt DS, my Mdl 13, 2 1/2 Python, or SW Bodyguard is more than capable of dinner plate groups at 50 yards.

I can't do it all the time with just any ammunition, but the revolvers are up to the task providing I do mine.

Maybe your old Colt has been fed a long diet of hot reloads and some of its internal vitals are out of sinc.

Have your revolver checked out by a competent PISTOLSMITH. I think you will find that your revolver is capable of greater accuracy than most people can hold.

The're more than one or two old greybeards on this forum that will probabally agree with me. Don't give up on your revolver just yet. Try some different ammo, have a good pistol/revolver smith look at the revolverand practice with it.

I think you will be surprised at what a shortie revolver can do.

salty..

 

[Mark G.]

Thanks for all of your responses. I am going to have it checked out by a gunsmith. I agree with the practice, practice and more practice.

Lone Star, I will be standing in the barn when I practice The humor is appreciated!!

 

[Brian D.]

Don't forget that "ball and dummy" drill, Mark! It sped up the learning curve on my revolver shooting quite a bit. Taught to me by one of the best revolver shooters here in our Cincy area, btw. A fellow who works at Target World by the name of Dale B. (Just don't tell him I was praising him! )

 

[Mark G.]

Brian D.

Did not forget the "ball & dummy" as that falls into my practice, practice and more practice. I appreciate the tip. I won't tell him if you don't.