I don't intend to spark a 1911 vs. Glock war, but I am considering the two for my first CCW. My priorities for CCW are dimensions, weight and mechanical simplicity/reliability. 7 is enough for any civilian shootout, so capacity is a non-issue. We've all read and seen the Glock torture tests, I'm sure. But I read the 1911 is pretty simple and tough, too. Which would be small, but still give me 3 fingers underneath, while delivering full-power defense loads into the bad guy, absolutely every single time?
Colt Defender .45 ACP vs. Glock 30 .45 ACP?
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dusty14u
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If it were me I would go with the Colt based on the size and ease of concealability. I own a G30 and it is much thicker than the Colt. Still a good weapon and easier for me to conceal in the colder months.
dusty14u
Member
The 30 is the sub-compact medium sized. The smallest 45acp is the G36. I think it holds 6 rounds. I bought a Fire Dragon aftermarket barrel for mine so I can shoot my lead reloads. It is a nice shooting and accurate gun.
j21blackjack
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I agree, I just replaced my Colt New Agent with a Kimber Compact for my EDC. The Kimber is a little heavier, but you can't tell with it in the CBST. Don't get me wrong though, the Colt has been 100% reliable, never a failure. I would carry either in a heartbeat, but the Kimber is new, so it gets top pick for carry.
The Glock and the 1911 are apples and oranges. Or rather, apples and fried chicken. Two VERY different platforms.
You can certainly compare size, weight, simplicity and reliability - as you suggested - but that's not enough to answer the question for you.
The two offer very different overall experiences, and I think the decision can only be made after you spend some time handling both, and putting rounds down range.
That's just my $0.02. Others will (and probably have) addressed the specifics of your concerns - size/weight/etc.
You can certainly compare size, weight, simplicity and reliability - as you suggested - but that's not enough to answer the question for you.
The two offer very different overall experiences, and I think the decision can only be made after you spend some time handling both, and putting rounds down range.
That's just my $0.02. Others will (and probably have) addressed the specifics of your concerns - size/weight/etc.
Bobo
Member
The Glock 30 is double-stack (10+1 standard) (9+1 or 13+1 optional magazines), 1.27" wide, 34 oz. loaded with 10+1.
The Glock 36 is single-stack (6+1 only), 1.13" wide, 27 oz. loaded.
Both have 3.78" barrels, 6.77" over-all length, and 4.76" high.
The Glocks have polymer frames.
The Colt Defender is single-action.
The Colt New Agent is double-action.
Both are 7+1, have 3" barrels, 6.75" over-all length. I don't know the width, height, or loaded weights of the Colts.
The Colts have aluminum frames.
The Colts go for about $935, the Glocks go for about $550.
Bobo
The Glock 36 is single-stack (6+1 only), 1.13" wide, 27 oz. loaded.
Both have 3.78" barrels, 6.77" over-all length, and 4.76" high.
The Glocks have polymer frames.
The Colt Defender is single-action.
The Colt New Agent is double-action.
Both are 7+1, have 3" barrels, 6.75" over-all length. I don't know the width, height, or loaded weights of the Colts.
The Colts have aluminum frames.
The Colts go for about $935, the Glocks go for about $550.
Bobo
K9american
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I believe the New Agent is also single action.
I'm not a huge fan of aluminum anything to tell you the truth. Any firsthand experiences with the Colt? I worry about sand and other crap getting into the gun somehow. I won't have to worry about that with the Glock.
1KPerDay
Member
The G30 is quite thick. It's about the same length and height as a G19/23 but quite a bit thicker. If you can hide one comfortably you're a better man than I. But then I pocket carry an LCP or J-frame so I'm spoiled.
Here's what I have:
http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Guardian/Guardian.php
This has a longer grip frame but it may conceal OK:
http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/pistols/supercarry/supercarry_pro/
I gotta say, that STI Guardian looks damn sweet. I might pass on the Kimber; is the entire slide aluminum? I'd really prefer all steel, I don't mind the extra weight.
j21blackjack
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Yes, the New Agent is SA, it's a 1911. Also, both the Defender and New Agent are officer frames, so I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to here
Also the un-loaded weight of the New Agent is 24oz, it's about 4" tall, and it's less than an inch thick.
Also the un-loaded weight of the New Agent is 24oz, it's about 4" tall, and it's less than an inch thick.
I can recommend from personal experience the following compact and mid-sized 1911s:
STI Shadow 3" barrel
STI Escort 3" barrel
Colt Defender 3" barrel
STI Ranger II ~4" barrel
I carry the Shadow the majority of the time. Despite being a little bigger, the Ranger II doesn't seem to be any harder to conceal but the shorter 3" barrels can be more comfortable whe seated most of the day. I haven't had the reliability issues some others have had in the 3" guns.
STI Shadow 3" barrel
STI Escort 3" barrel
Colt Defender 3" barrel
STI Ranger II ~4" barrel
I carry the Shadow the majority of the time. Despite being a little bigger, the Ranger II doesn't seem to be any harder to conceal but the shorter 3" barrels can be more comfortable whe seated most of the day. I haven't had the reliability issues some others have had in the 3" guns.
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That 4" Ranger might be perfect. Do the 3" models have reliability issues? Is that Ranger all stainless steel? Sounds awesome.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
I thought the same thing about a year ago. I was in between a 3" barrel 1911 and the G36 though, since they were somewhat the same in size.
My choice came down to my preference for a CCW pistol that wasn't a hammer fired single action with a safety lever. Since I started years ago as a revolver guy, that's the choice I've made. Others choose differently as suits their needs.
I love shooting 1911s for other reasons than CCW, though.
MICHAEL T
Member
Colt Defender is the way to go.
The Guardian has a 3.9 inch barrel.
I do not have a problem with it when seated. Nor would a Commander length be a problem.
The 1911 was designed with a five inch barrel. The four and one quarter inch Commander has been successful, and some of the high end 1911 makers will not make anything shorter due to reliability issues. There are some four inch pistols.
Many three inch compacts have given trouble, apparently due to less than ideal geometry and lower slide mass, and it seems that one should replace the recoil springs often.
The grip frame is more of an issue than the length when it comes to concealability.
I know it’s not what was originally asked but I thought my experiences with my search for 45 acp CCW pistol may apply/help.
I had been carrying a Springfield compact 1911 alloy frame which has 4in commander length barrel and officers size grip length.
It hides very well and is reasonably light and comfortable for carry and shoots very well.
I did some classes and belong to an outdoor range that allows freedom to do drills from holsters and movement etc.
For me, with any amount of cold weather clothing the deployment of the 1911 became problematic.
Snagging and safety/grip safety manipulation would occasionally be an issue causing me to be slow or inaccurate due to bad grip.
I worried what would happen in a real situation where I would be more pumped up than a class or shooting with friends in friendly competition.
So the idea of the glock paradigm seemed like a good idea to me.
But Glocks just plain do not work for me – even a g19 is too large for trigger finger reach with my small hands so a 45 glock is out of the question. They are also very wide.
So I purchased a Kahr P45 which is 6.07in long slide with 3.64in barrel, 4.8in grip length, 1.01in wide, 6+1 rounds and weighs 20.5oz with mag.
Like the Glock, the Kahr is a striker fired pistol without any external safeties.
It does have a light/smooth revolver like trigger that was pretty easy to get used to.
The Kahr P45 accuracy surprised me – it’s as good as my Springfield compact.
I was worried about the light weight and recoil but the Kahr P45 shoots as easily as my Springfield compact with practice ammo or federal hydro shock 230gr ammo.
I have since reduced the grip length another .400in and use PM45 5 round mags to make it even more concealable.
I also carry the TP45 7 round mags with built up base plates to extend grip length as spares.
I am extremely happy with the project.
Its carries extremely well, ridiculously easy to hide and shoots great.
But…. my Springfield compact still has a place in my heart.
Just something to consider…..
I had been carrying a Springfield compact 1911 alloy frame which has 4in commander length barrel and officers size grip length.
It hides very well and is reasonably light and comfortable for carry and shoots very well.
I did some classes and belong to an outdoor range that allows freedom to do drills from holsters and movement etc.
For me, with any amount of cold weather clothing the deployment of the 1911 became problematic.
Snagging and safety/grip safety manipulation would occasionally be an issue causing me to be slow or inaccurate due to bad grip.
I worried what would happen in a real situation where I would be more pumped up than a class or shooting with friends in friendly competition.
So the idea of the glock paradigm seemed like a good idea to me.
But Glocks just plain do not work for me – even a g19 is too large for trigger finger reach with my small hands so a 45 glock is out of the question. They are also very wide.
So I purchased a Kahr P45 which is 6.07in long slide with 3.64in barrel, 4.8in grip length, 1.01in wide, 6+1 rounds and weighs 20.5oz with mag.
Like the Glock, the Kahr is a striker fired pistol without any external safeties.
It does have a light/smooth revolver like trigger that was pretty easy to get used to.
The Kahr P45 accuracy surprised me – it’s as good as my Springfield compact.
I was worried about the light weight and recoil but the Kahr P45 shoots as easily as my Springfield compact with practice ammo or federal hydro shock 230gr ammo.
I have since reduced the grip length another .400in and use PM45 5 round mags to make it even more concealable.
I also carry the TP45 7 round mags with built up base plates to extend grip length as spares.
I am extremely happy with the project.
Its carries extremely well, ridiculously easy to hide and shoots great.
But…. my Springfield compact still has a place in my heart.
Just something to consider…..
legumeofterror
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I have a Colt Officers ACP and it it is very much an unreliable handgun. There are plenty of compact .45 ACP pistols out there that are less expensive and much more reliable than a chopped 1911.
gb6491
Member
I've no first hand experience with the Colt Defender, but I do have an OACP. (unlike the previous poster, mine is trouble free). Performance of the chopped 1911s seems to vary between extremes among individual guns/shooters. The OACP, except for it's weight, works quite well for concealed carry. I imagine that weight would be a non-issue with the alloy framed Defender.
I had a Glock 30SF. It had some teething problems, but finally ran to "perfection". It's fine for OWB carry, but that big, wide slide just made it too difficult/uncomfortable for me to carry concealed. I wish Glock would offer a model with a G36 slide on a G30SF lower.
I ended up with a Kahr CW45 for concealed carry. It had some troubles early on, but is quite reliable now. I've always been pleased with how accurate I am with it.
Regards,
Greg
G36, or Kahr?
I plum forgot the single stack G36. I should've considered that instead. I have considered Kahr, but I hear they're notorious for needing a 300 round or so break-in period. How wide is the grip and slide on the G36? I know Glocks are built like tanks, so if the G36 is small enough, it'll be perfect. Any firsthand experiences with it?
I plum forgot the single stack G36. I should've considered that instead. I have considered Kahr, but I hear they're notorious for needing a 300 round or so break-in period. How wide is the grip and slide on the G36? I know Glocks are built like tanks, so if the G36 is small enough, it'll be perfect. Any firsthand experiences with it?
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