Colt Mk. III Trooper Lockwork and Internals

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Mr. Mosin

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Question on the Mk III Trooper and the Colt "Bank Vault" lockup. I know the Mk 3 Trooper changed the internals from Colt's earlier DA lockwork, to a more simplified, machine assembly friendly lockwork. Did this get rid of "bank vault" lockup with "no movement" when the hammer is cocked ? Buddy has a Mk III Trooper he is willing to sell for $400. It's missing the crane lock detent and spring (he's ordering these as I type). His particular specimen has the slightest slack in the cylinder in full lockup, and a barely discernable endshake of the cylinder.
 
Yes, because the hand is no longer tensioned against the cylinder at the moment of ignition.
 
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QUOTE="AustinTX, post: 11442273, member: 124625"]Yes, because the hand is no longer tensioned against the cylinder at the moment of ignition.[/QUOTE]
So it's permissible for the cylinder to move ~ 1/32 to 1/16 of an inch with the hammer cocked ?
 
For any MK3 ; that's a good price. For some reason they too are going upwards the $600 dollar range, but this is online prices.
As for the cylinder move, I'd have to guess it's a LE-trade in? But it does sound worn. It's still safe to fire, operate, but to be honest I myself am not completely sure of whats acceptable on a MK3, but they are different beasts from the V-Spring Colts.
 
Buy it and fix it up at your lesiure. Sounds like he's just too lazy or cheap to get it fixed. My Trooper didn't lock up as nice as my Pythons, but it was a very accurate gun nonetheless.
 
No, that's too much in either direction, sideways or front to back. Checking it when the gun is locked up?

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/reference-library-of-revolver-wisdom.772320/
Yes. Hammer at full cock is the proper "full lockup" for a Colt, isn't it ? The cylinder has no front to back movement along the axis of the ejector rod. Just a hair, barely discernable of end shake, and perhaps 1/32 of an inch movement back and forth in lockup. I tried the "lightly drag the cylinder with finger" thing, and it still locked up on every time. Just about 1/32" play back and forth when it is locked up. The teeth on the ratchet don't look damaged or significantly worn (that I can tell).
 
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For any MK3 ; that's a good price. For some reason they too are going upwards the $600 dollar range, but this is online prices.
As for the cylinder move, I'd have to guess it's a LE-trade in? But it does sound worn. It's still safe to fire, operate, but to be honest I myself am not completely sure of whats acceptable on a MK3, but they are different beasts from the V-Spring Colts.
I'd guess the same. Holster wear around the muzzle and first inch or so of the barrel past muzzle, a chunk taken out of the wood grips, and a slight spot of rust on the hammer. Id give him $400 and fix it, just because I shoot it so well and desperately want it.
 
Yea i'd want it too if It was a gun I shot so well.
A original Trooper with Python grips was one of the most best feeling handguns I've ever felt. If I did my part, that thing was really accurate.
After I was done borrowing, my dad put the Pachmayr grips back on and uses it for his own use.
Eventually got a Mk3 Trooper for my own use (which is in more wear than what you're describing on yours). Mine goes forward and back shake, as well as left and right.
Also the sideplate stud that keeps the cylinder from going too far when you eject cartridges is also very worn down.. only a very thin line keeps the cylinder from going far. Once when I had fired hot loads which resulted in them sticking inside the chamber, I tried ejecting and all of a sudden the cylinder threw forward to the grip.
The deal I got on mine was $490. Extreme muzzle wear and everything. But it's still extremely accurate.
 
Yea i'd want it too if It was a gun I shot so well.
A original Trooper with Python grips was one of the most best feeling handguns I've ever felt. If I did my part, that thing was really accurate.
After I was done borrowing, my dad put the Pachmayr grips back on and uses it for his own use.
Eventually got a Mk3 Trooper for my own use (which is in more wear than what you're describing on yours). Mine goes forward and back shake, as well as left and right.
Also the sideplate stud that keeps the cylinder from going too far when you eject cartridges is also very worn down.. only a very thin line keeps the cylinder from going far. Once when I had fired hot loads which resulted in them sticking inside the chamber, I tried ejecting and all of a sudden the cylinder threw forward to the grip.
The deal I got on mine was $490. Extreme muzzle wear and everything. But it's still extremely accurate.
I had to check the headstamps and make sure I hadn't accidentally loaded .38's instead of .357's. There was a noticeable difference, to be sure; but it was... pleasant shooting .357 Mag's (158 grn, JFP, Remington G&W box). Nothing like shooting my cousin's 8" barreled Taurus. It was borderline painful.
 
Yea the Trooper is built like a tank. Didn't realize it until I looked at some K frame S&Ws. For a comparable size handgun, I'd say Colt did it right.
But Smith & Wesson has the Model 66 which is pretty bulky itself. Saw one of those for $250 at sportsmans.
 
Yea the Trooper is built like a tank. Didn't realize it until I looked at some K frame S&Ws. For a comparable size handgun, I'd say Colt did it right.
But Smith & Wesson has the Model 66 which is pretty bulky itself. Saw one of those for $250 at sportsmans.
How is it's "long term" longevity compared to something like the Python, or a Ruger GP100 ? I know the Python had to be serviced regularly, and was... delicate; irregardless of what the "fanboys" say.
 
had to be serviced regularly, and was... delicate;
I'm not a fanboy of the Python, (don't own one nor intend to) but you're right in that every few thousand rounds or so, you have to replace the hand. Fail to do that, and the system could fall out of whack rather quickly.
Long term longevity of the MK3? Well all the parts are machine fitted, meaning that after they were made in the mold, then case hardened, they were all placed into the revolver by cheap labour. The MK3 series is a lot more friendly for working on the parts by oneself, however that doesn't mean they're intended to be fitted. The case hardening is very thin, and if you file any amount of it off, you could damage the part. The outer layer is tough as glass, but thin and you are not supposed to penetrate this.
If a part starts to fail, you can simply order a replacement and it'll most likely fit right in. For example, the Mk3 Metropolitan cylinder will fit into the Trooper frame and cycle just fine. All the grip frames of the Mk3 series were all identical as well. However they were different from the earlier V-spring Colts.
The frame of the Mk3 series was glamoured by writers of the day as being the toughest DA .357 around. Do I believe them? They're probably right. I mean I have no worries about the gun ever "blowing up" and if it does have a mechanical failure, I know it'd easily be fixed. Do not dry fire it without snap caps however, as from what I understand, the firing pin can break , and to fix this it requires a pressure mechanism that only the Colt factory was set up to do. Now days Colt will refuse service on their older discontinued models. There is a third party company that still works on the Mk3 series, and they can fix any firing pin issues or send you any newly manufactured part for the MK3 that you so desire. (I forgot what this company is called).
The trigger pull weight is governed mainly by the coiled mainspring, and in my experience there is two main different weights. Mine, and as well as a good number of them, have a very heavy and atrocious trigger pull (probably for Law enforcement). Heavy mainspring. But there were also Mk3s that had a lighter, and smoother mainspring. You can easily change out your mainspring with one of these, if it's too heavy. Personally I wouldn't, as I've heard of light primer strikes with these, and that defeats the whole purpose of double action being reliable.
Get yourself a good thick leather holster, the Mk3 deserves it.
 
How is it's "long term" longevity compared to something like the Python, or a Ruger GP100 ? I know the Python had to be serviced regularly, and was... delicate; irregardless of what the "fanboys" say.
You are correct. I was taught how to take care of Pythons from the guy who worked on the two I bought from my Dad: The PD Armorer. (Him, and Jerry Kuhnhausen via his excellent books on Colt revolvers.) The 'J' frame Trooper (Obviously not the same as S&W's "J" frame!) is a sturdy gun; the older "I" frame ones are closer to the Python. MKIII's are all J frame, so no worries!
 
I'd guess the same. Holster wear around the muzzle and first inch or so of the barrel past muzzle, a chunk taken out of the wood grips, and a slight spot of rust on the hammer. Id give him $400 and fix it, just because I shoot it so well and desperately want it.

So why haven't you bought it yet?
 
How is it's "long term" longevity compared to something like the Python, or a Ruger GP100 ? I know the Python had to be serviced regularly, and was... delicate; irregardless of what the "fanboys" say.

I'm not a fanboy of the Python, (don't own one nor intend to) but you're right in that every few thousand rounds or so, you have to replace the hand. Fail to do that, and the system could fall out of whack rather quickly.
.

Weird, I have more than 10,000 rounds on both my Pythons and they still lock up and time as good as the day I got them. But hey, what do I know compared to folks who don't actually own one. o_O
 
what do I know compared to folks who don't actually own one.

Good point. But from what ive read from a scholar on Colt revolvers, the biggest problem is people didn't realize that the Python isn't meant to be treated like a Smith & Wesson. They dont pay attention to the little problems, they don't know when the action is starting to wear, etc.
I am 100% certain that a Python will last as much lifetimes as any other great quality weapon, so you don't need to convince me they will. '
But it is known for a fact that many a Python owner eventually ran into timing issues, and is such a known problem that gunsmiths who are experts on Pythons are always mentioned when someone is buying one.
 
Weird, I have more than 10,000 rounds on both my Pythons and they still lock up and time as good as the day I got them. But hey, what do I know compared to folks who don't actually own one
That's about five times the Colt recommended service interval.

The wear and flexing that caused the need for adjustments was inherent in the DA Colt design from the Model 1889 on.

It was well known to police officers who carried them, and they had their favorite pistolsmiths whom they patronized regularly.

It was not a major concern for me when I had my Officer's Model Match--there were numerous pistolsmiths with whom the gun stores did business.

Long gone.

The Trooper Mk. III does not have that problem.

Nor do the current Pythons and Cobras.
 
the biggest problem is people didn't realize that the Python isn't meant to be treated like a Smith & Wesson. .

I have only ever had 3 three revolvers break while shooting them. All Smith & Wesson's. Two were model 19s that experienced cracked forcing cones. S&W informed me they couldn't fix them and they became parts revolvers. My remaining K frames are in stored in the safe never to be shot again. The third was a 386 L Frame. The cylinder started delaminating as I was shooting. I suddenly noticed huge "curtains" of flame come out of the cylinder gap. Quite spectacular actually. I managed to secure a stainless cylinder from a 686 afterwards as the OEM 386 had to be thrown away.

But it is known for a fact that many a Python owner eventually ran into timing issues, and is such a known problem that gunsmiths who are experts on Pythons are always mentioned when someone is buying one

I know only of one gunsmith who is an expert on Pythons, Frank Glenn, and I have never ever heard him say that. He may have, but never to me or to anybody else that I know of.

I always hear claims of Pythons being fragile or prone to timing issues from people who have either never owned a Python or somebody who claims to have owned "several, years back" who make those claims. Myself, and shooters who actually own and shoot them, are unaware of the issues you talk of. I think it's a simply story that has been repeated so many times it's become an urban legend. If it was true, my guns should have been unshootable by now and I can assure you, not only do they still work, but they work very very well.

"We're all living in America
America is wunderbar"
 
Weird, I have more than 10,000 rounds on both my Pythons and they still lock up and time as good as the day I got them. But hey, what do I know compared to folks who don't actually own one. o_O

Depends on what you shoot through it. Back when I owned my two, HOT loads with 125 JHP's were in vogue. I did a hand replacement and fitting on my 2 1/2" because of that. My compressed Blue Dot loads cracked the hammer of the 4" when my Dad still owned it, he came home from qualifying and 'confiscated' my Trooper MkIII, went back and finished. I never got it back. (I was 17 at the time)
A steady diet of .38's with the occasional box of .357's, and yeah, they'll last longer.
 
I think it's a simply story that has been repeated so many times it's become an urban legend.
No.

I remember police officers' bringing their guns in for adjustment and picking them up afterwards.

The subject is discussed by a Colt representative in the latest American Rifleman magazine.
 
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