Colt Python 6" in use with police?

[rodinal220]

Nice snake,must have been a white shirts gun

 

[massad ayoob]

I don't know of any agency where all armed personnel were ISSUED six-inch Colt Pythons. The four-inch Python was at one time standard issue for Colorado Highway Patrol.

However, numerous officers who preferred longer barrels, and could afford the price and had the option, carried their own six-inch Pythons. Two of the California Highway Patrolmen murdered in the infamous Newhall Incident in 1970, Officers Gore and Pence, were armed with privately owned/department approved six-inch Colt Pythons, and used them in the fatal shootout.

This will be documented in Mike Wood's new book, "Newhall: A Tactical Analysis," coming very soon from the folks at Digest Books.

 

[SaxonPig]

Not sure what Wood hopes to accomplish. I recall reading your analysis of the incident many years ago and as I recall you covered most thoroughly.

Thanks for what you've done over the years, by the way. I have enjoyed your writing and have learned a great deal from you sharing your expertise.

 

[Checkman]

Many years ago when my department allowed us to carry our choice (department approved of course) of either pistol or revolver there were a few officers who carried either the 6" stainless steel S&W Model 686 or the stainless steel Python.

However times have changed and we now are issued either the Glock 21 or the Glock 19 depending on our preference. But back in the day you could usually find a few officers with 6" revolvers in their holsters.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

There is a grey area between department issued and department authorized for private purchase. Regardless of whether you can use it in that particular shooting game, I would snag that gun. In the US it would be worth double your source's asking price.

 

[massad ayoob]

Saxon, your kind words are appreciated. I've enjoyed your posts on a lot of forums over the years, too.

Mike Wood did some very deep research, came up with some details that really flesh out the understanding of the dynamics behind the shooting, and was able to dispell at least one pervasive myth about it that has lasted for more than 40 years. I think you'll find it a compelling read. Should be available in Kindle edition sometime this month, maybe if we're lucky by late December.

 

[Guillermo]

Mr. Ayoob,

SaxonPig is an outstanding ambassador to offer appreciation for your work.

While you may have an idea as to your reach, I was at an IDPA match on the outskirts of Austin this morning and we were discussing the logic of a stage. One fellow said that "Massad would not recommend that" as we talked about the movement of a stage.

(there was a reload in a "hallway")

Please add my thanks.

You have saved untold lives and been a great voice for the gun community.

Thank you

AND thank you for dropping in on this thread.

 

[Kabal]

I don't know of any agency where all armed personnel were ISSUED six-inch Colt Pythons. The four-inch Python was at one time standard issue for Colorado Highway Patrol.

However, numerous officers who preferred longer barrels, and could afford the price and had the option, carried their own six-inch Pythons. Two of the California Highway Patrolmen murdered in the infamous Newhall Incident in 1970, Officers Gore and Pence, were armed with privately owned/department approved six-inch Colt Pythons, and used them in the fatal shootout.

This will be documented in Mike Wood's new book, "Newhall: A Tactical Analysis," coming very soon from the folks at Digest Books.

Thanks for the info, Mr. Ayoob!
I've bought your excellent Greatest Handguns of the World to check what you wrote about the Python. Even if it turns out that I can't participate in the service revoler competition with this gun, I've learned new things while doing my research.

There is a grey area between department issued and department authorized for private purchase. Regardless of whether you can use it in that particular shooting game, I would snag that gun. In the US it would be worth double your source's asking price.

I've checked the rulebook, and the wording is not too precise. It says that the revolver must have been "adopted beyond trial stage". I'll have to make a few calls to find out if the 6" Colt Python qualifies.
I'll buy the gun no matter what - there's much fun to be had outside of service revolver competitions

 

[INMY01TA]

 

[Kabal]

The Python seems to be very popular with fictional police officers. There's a French/German film called Police Python 357, and of course there's Magnum Force.


I have a question not directly related to the title of this thread:

The frame of the Python doesn't appear as massive as that of, say, the Ruger GP100. It might also be difficult to get spare parts for the Python.

Do you think shooting .38 Special would help reduce stress on the frame and mechanism?
This would probably result in increased cleaning time due to crud rings in the chambers, and I wonder if it's worth it.

The price for .357 Magnum and .38 Special is almost identical here.

 

[dfariswheel]

Colt's frames and cylinders are actually some of the strongest ever used in a DA revolver.
Colt used very high grade forged frames so they don't have to be as massive as Ruger's cast frames to have the same or better strength.

What wears, is the action, specifically the hand that rotates the cylinder. This can wear and cause the cylinder to not rotate quite far enough to lock fully.
When the trigger is pulled the cylinder will lock so it's safe to shoot.
The hand in the Colt's is considered to be a normal maintenance item IF it ever does wear to the point where it needs to be repaired.
This is like installing new spark plugs in an expensive car. For the higher performance, you have to do more maintenance.

In any revolver, shooting hot .357 Magnum will wear the gun more then shooting standard .38 Special ammo.
That's like driving a car at 100MPH or 70MPH.
In most revolvers it isn't the fame or cylinder that wear from hot ammo, unless it non-standard extra hot reloaded ammo that damages the frame.

Depending on how much you plan to shoot, I'd either just have fun and shoot standard .357 ammo, or just buy a couple of Brownell's bronze chamber brushes and clean the chambers regularly if you shoot .38 Special.

I've got a lot of rounds through a couple of stainless Pythons, about an even mix of light .38 Special reloads and a good amount of standard factory .357.
Both are in perfect condition.
One thing that "can" be rough on a .357 is shooting the hot 125 grain Magnum loads.
These can erode and even crack the forcing cone in the rear of the barrel. Shooting bullets in the 135 to 158 grain range are much easier on the gun.

 

[SaxonPig]

Back in the early 1980s when I was living in CA I saw a CA. Highway Patrol officer at the range in full uniform (smart to practice dressed the way you will be dressed when fighting) shooting a 6" Python. I never saw anyone use a speedloader as fast as that man did. If you blinked you missed it. He did a lot of practicing, I imagine.

 

[Lawdawg45]

Back in the early 1980s when I was living in CA I saw a CA. Highway Patrol officer at the range in full uniform (smart to practice dressed the way you will be dressed when fighting) shooting a 6" Python. I never saw anyone use a speedloader as fast as that man did. If you blinked you missed it. He did a lot of practicing, I imagine.

If you recall in the Dirty harry flick Magnum Force, the three rogue motorcycle Officers either had Pythons or Diamondbacks. Hollywood coincidence or were they (SFPD) issued 4 inch Colts back then?

LD

 

[SaxonPig]

The only SFPD revolvers I have ever seen were S&Ws. They issued the Model 58 in 41 Magnum and the Model 28 in 357 and they are stamped SFPD on the frames.

 

[Kabal]

Colt's frames and cylinders are actually some of the strongest ever used in a DA revolver.
Colt used very high grade forged frames so they don't have to be as massive as Ruger's cast frames to have the same or better strength.

What wears, is the action, specifically the hand that rotates the cylinder. This can wear and cause the cylinder to not rotate quite far enough to lock fully.
When the trigger is pulled the cylinder will lock so it's safe to shoot.
The hand in the Colt's is considered to be a normal maintenance item IF it ever does wear to the point where it needs to be repaired.
This is like installing new spark plugs in an expensive car. For the higher performance, you have to do more maintenance.

In any revolver, shooting hot .357 Magnum will wear the gun more then shooting standard .38 Special ammo.
That's like driving a car at 100MPH or 70MPH.
In most revolvers it isn't the fame or cylinder that wear from hot ammo, unless it non-standard extra hot reloaded ammo that damages the frame.

Depending on how much you plan to shoot, I'd either just have fun and shoot standard .357 ammo, or just buy a couple of Brownell's bronze chamber brushes and clean the chambers regularly if you shoot .38 Special.

I've got a lot of rounds through a couple of stainless Pythons, about an even mix of light .38 Special reloads and a good amount of standard factory .357.
Both are in perfect condition.
One thing that "can" be rough on a .357 is shooting the hot 125 grain Magnum loads.
These can erode and even crack the forcing cone in the rear of the barrel. Shooting bullets in the 135 to 158 grain range are much easier on the gun.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, dfariswheel!

I think I'll shoot both .38 and not-too-hot .357 ammo. I'll also get those bronze chamber brushes and use them after shooting .38 Special.

 

[Lawdawg45]

The only SFPD revolvers I have ever seen were S&Ws. They issued the Model 58 in 41 Magnum and the Model 28 in 357 and they are stamped SFPD on the frames.

Roger that!

LD