Colt Python Reference material needed

[Jeffrey K Scudder]

My uncle has/had two Colt Pythons that are 3" which are being given to me.
One has "Combat Python" stamped in the barrel w 357 Magnum under that, the other just has "Python 357", does not say combat, but both are 3" barrels. So I'm looking for infomation on them and also the best reference material I can find for future python info. I have two publications by R.L.Wilson that don't say much and a blue book. Any help on these two
3" ( both are blue)would be appreciated, and what book or books will be the most help in the future with Colt Pythons.
Thanks, JKS

 

[dfariswheel]

I answered the question in your other post.

Basically there are two versions of the 3" Python.

One was a limited production run made for a West coast distributor.
The guns were marked "Combat Python" and are also known as a "California Combat" Python to collectors.
Production of this first 3" model was low.
Since Colt used up all the barrels in this run, there were no loose barrels sold that might have been put on a standard Python to make up a fake.

After this distributor run, as they often did, Colt made several short regular production runs of 3" Pythons.
These guns were not marked with any special markings other than the standard Python stamps, and these were run in the same serial number ranges as all other Pythons made during the same time.

For this reason, there is no way to positively ID a 3" Python based on serial number.

Since Colt did release a good number of 3" Python barrels after production ended, counterfeit 3" Pythons are common.
Boxes with end labels indicating a 3" barrel have also been faked.
The ONLY way to positively ID a genuine 3" Python is to buy a Colt factory Historical Letter.
Since even factory letters have been counterfeited, a smart buyer insists on getting his OWN letter direct from the factory.

Unfortunately, there's not much in the way of printed info on the Python, or on post-war Colt firearms in general.
While S&W collectors have the excellent Supica book on S&W firearms, Colt books are mostly more "coffee table" picture books of fine Colt's.
There are excellent deeper information books on Colt Single Actions, the very early Colt double actions, and the 1911 autos, but not on more modern double action revolvers.

The top books are "Colt: An American Legend" by R.L. Wilson.
This pictures every model of firearm made by Colt from 1836 to 1985. The illustrated guns are mostly highly engraved "show" models, but there are no variations shown.
The biggest plus to this book is, it has full factory serial number production records in the back of the book.
This reference shows ALL production info up to 1985.

After 1985 there is no publicly available information. For production dates of Colt's made after this, simply call the Colt factory during business hours, and they will give you a production date over the phone.
They will NOT give you ANY other information other than a date. For that, you have to buy the letter.

The other good reference is "The Book of Colt Firearms" by Sutherland and Wilson.
This is a VERY expensive book, usually costing $300 or more.
This book covers Colt up to the 1960's.

Last is "Colt Firearms From 1836" by James Serven. This covers the same general date range.

 

[Jeffrey K Scudder]

Thanks for the insight.

I guess the one question in my mind that was generated from you answer is how do people go about counterfeiting a 3" gun? Do they cut a barrel down somehow? Or just find a 3" barrel and replace a 4" barrel I assume would be the most common way, if you can find a 3" barrel. I do have one of the books you recomended, the " Colt an American Legend", but not much in there in the way of 3" infomation.
I will check into the other books and see what I can find. Thanks so much for all the detailed information you shared, it's appreciated.

Jeff Scudder

 

[dfariswheel]

The 3" Pythons made for the distributor were reportedly made up by cutting down 8" barrels, since the vents in the barrel matched up with a 3" barrel.

Later 3" barrels were newly made.

The only way to counterfeit a standard production 3" is to use a 3" barrel.

Sorry to say but the available Colt books are all older than the 3" Python, so they don't have ANY information about them.

Fact is, there is little published information on Pythons at all.

The best source of Python info is the September/October 1992 issue of "The American Handgunner", in which writer Massad Ayoob did a cover-length feature article on the Python.
There's more information in this one articel than in any other source.
In this article, the 3" barrel is just mentioned in passing with no real info other than that it was made.

In your case, since you're getting both guns from a known source, it's very unlikely one is a phony.

If you want to spend the money, for about $75.00 Colt will send you a Historical Letter listing everything Colt knows about the gun.

This would include the caliber, barrel length, finish, type of grips, and who it was shipped to.

This would not include any history of the Python in general, or the story of the 3" guns, just the data of your particular Python.

Bottom line is, for any number of reasons, little has ever been written on the post-war Colt double action revolvers, other than a general listing of what was made, and when.

On the 3" Python, there's virtually nothing out there.

 

[jiminpa]

I also have a Combat Python (printed on barrel) that I bought new from a gun shop in PA in 1989 but it has never been fired it. I think I was told that 500 were made when I bought the gun for $550 but I do not know this for sure. I have the original box and all the paperwork/Colt manual etc. that came with it. Everything is is perfect or near perfect condition and the gun is mint. Does anybody have any idea of what it may be worth? Also, is there a source (Print or online) where people list guns they have for sale that anybody can recommend. Im not looking to sell my Combat Python but Im interested to see what others are selling theirs for.
Thank You for your help.

 

[dfariswheel]

On the fairly rare occasion that a GENUINE 3" Python does come up for sale, prices are HIGH.
The problem is, they come up so rarely that it's hard to give even a ball park value since prices are skyrocketing on all Pythons.

The problem is, a "Combat Python" comes up for sale so rarely, there's no reliable way to guess what one will sell for NOW.
Valuing a standard 4" or 6" Python is easy: There's plenty being sold, and you can give a fairly accurate price range.

There are the online auction sites, but seeing a Combat Python is very rare.
Here's the main ones:
http://www.gunbroker.com/ (This is the top auction site).

http://www.gunsamerica.com/ (This is a straight sales site.)

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/search.aspx (The second auction site, seems to be loosing out to gunbroker.com).

What you usually see are standard production 3" Pythons, and the Combat Pythons are rarely seen at all.

Since there's no reliable figures available, anything will be a wild guess, and yours is as good as mine.
Keep in mind that:
a. A lot of the standard production 3" Pythons that come up for sale are PHONIES.
b. The genuine standard Production 3" Pythons bring high prices.
c. The distributor "Combat Python" edition is VERY rare, and seldom comes up for sale at all.

As a pure guess for a distributor edition "Combat Python" ....$2000 to $2500 ????
Possibly more at auction.

 

[jiminpa]

Thank you, your info. is a great help!

 

[22-rimfire]

"The best source of Python info is the September/October 1992 issue of "The American Handgunner", in which writer Massad Ayoob did a cover-length feature article on the Python."

I have that issue around somewhere. Very good reference article on pythons. It even mentions some of the odd calibers and of course the 22 version that never went beyond an experimental gun (no production).

I was told once in the last year of so that I could retire on 20 sales of 3" Pythons that are factory original if you bought them right. Probably an exaggeration, but you get the point....$$$$$.

 

[JNewell]

I believe he also published an article on Pythons in the now-gone _The Accurate Rifle_ magazine. How much it differs from the 1992 article, I have no idea.

 

[schwantz]

I also bought a "Combat Python" with 3" barrel from a store in PA (Uniontown Area) at about the same time for about the same price as jiminpa's.

 

[schwantz]

Here is a copy of the letter I received from Colt regarding my 3" Python.

 

[massad ayoob]

Did a multi-part series on the Python 30 years ago in one of the first issues of American Handgunner. It can be found on line for the next 2 or 3 weeks at www.americanhandgunner.com.

One of our true American Classic firearms.

 

[Combat Controller]

Double post

 

[Combat Controller]

I have been looking hard for a 3" California Combat. If any of you fine folks wish to part with one, or any other python, I will give it a good home.

I have been trying to get one of every variation and that and the 2" are giving me fits. Of course, one must have stainless, nickle, and blue.....

 

[Boocoo]

combat pythons, Lets start and see what serial # we come up with

Lets just see what ser # we come up with guns that just read COMBAT PYTHON. Just the first 4 are fine.

Here are the first one. T738xx

 

[schwantz]

Mine is also T738XX

 

[dfariswheel]

There's some late info on the 3" Combat Python.

Indications are, these ARE NOT Colt factory guns, but were 8" barreled Pythons sold to the West coast distributor who then had the guns altered by an unknown gunsmith.
According to this info, these guns will NOT letter from Colt as a 3" barreled Python but as an 8" gun.

These guns are noted for having several non-Colt features, all related to the barrel.

1. The "Combat Python" stamps on the left side of the barrel are done in a non-Colt font and type of roll stamp.

2. The 8" Colt barrels had Colt's name and address info stamped on the right side of the barrels. When the barrels were cut down, the roll mark went with the cut section.
The 3" barrel has NO Colt address roll mark on the right side, which ALL factory guns have.

3. The front sight is not pinned in, but is apparently glued in the rib.

For full details, see the discussion on the Colt forum:
http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52509&an=0&page=1#Post52509

 

[Boocoo]

combat pythons are real and do have address markings.

You are dreming to think a real 3" barrel combat python has NO Colt address roll mark on the right side, Mine gun reads, colt mfg co, hartford, conn usa. We started a ser # research and we will see what we come up with. so far we have we alike.

 

[Boocoo]

California Combat" Pythons are not the same gun as a combat python

3" California Combat marked guns are not the same guns as a gun marked "combat Python'............................................

Two different guns with different markings.

Combat pythons will letter with colt as we see on the web site with the factory letters and with the same ser # range.

California Combat will not letter.

" 3" combat python" Will letter so they are factory GUNS...........................................

 

[schwantz]

California Combat" Pythons are not the same gun as a combat python

+1 to Boocoo. Note the letter below.

 

[Combat Python]

My Combat Python's serial number is T740XX. Has anybody seen a nickel Combat Python?

 

[6Gun]

COMBAT PYTHON: I have been researching the 3" Pythons for a while now and I am not aware of any nickel Lew Horton Combat Pythons. I have not even heard anyone claim to own a nickel version of this specific gun. If they exist, hopefully, this thread will flush them out. Colt standard production nickel 3" Pythons do exist, however. They appear to be quite rare. The last one I saw sold for over $7000 and was apparently documented by Colt.

Is your python T7404X? If not we may have identified yet another CP.

 

[6Gun]

I want to thank Dfariswheel for bringing the coltforum post on the California Combat Python to the attention of thehighroad, but I want to make one correction, which I think most of you have figured out. The post Dfariswheel refers to is about the 3" Pythons marked "California Combat" on the barrel. The guns marked "Combat Python" are a different production run produced by Colt for Lew Horton.

If I get time, I will start a thread covering the Lew Horton guns on the coltforum.com.

 

[CHGOTHNDER]

This is mine just in....

 

[CHGOTHNDER]

Box is a bad but all there,