Colt revolver cylinder seizing up

[Ryanxia]

So I've got a Colt Peacemaker Buntline .22 that is having trouble rotating properly. Some times when the hammer is cocked it rotates without issue, others it seizes right up and I have to gently but firmly 'help' the cylinder along.

My thought is that it's a broken or stretched cylinder hand spring as it seems to be fairly weak. A friend thought it was the forcing cone being too gunked up but after cleaning it I can see a gap between the cylinder and forcing cone when it seizes up.

I'm going to take it apart this weekend and check the cylinder hand spring but wanted to know if anyone else might have any suggestions as to the issue?
It seizes up about 1/3-1/2 way through the rotation. Thanks.

 

[1911Tuner]

Loaded or empty make any difference?

 

[dfariswheel]

The cylinder hand spring is an unlikely cause. It shouldn't have enough tension to cause cylinder rotation problems.

Check the cylinder base pin for fouling, burrs or a bent pin.

Check the base pin hole in the cylinder for fouling or debris, rust, etc.

Check the frame breech face for burrs, fouling or a protruding crater around the firing pin hole.

Check the cylinder ratchets for damage or burrs.

Check the hand for chips, wear, or other damage.

Check action function with the cylinder and base pin out. Check function with only the base pin in.

Check function with the cylinder loaded with ONE round. Try it with the one round in each of all six chambers, one chamber at a time.

Make sure the base pin is properly lubricated.

Try different, better grade ammo. Cheap ammo is often a cause of odd problems.

 

[Ryanxia]

1911 Turner - no difference loaded or unloaded.

df- thanks I'll look at these when I check it out this weekend.

Also worth noting, cylinder is fine, cylinder hand itself is fine.

 

[rcmodel]

Anything like the ratchet, or hand, or bolt got any oil or grease on it, ever??

The main failure points in a Colt SA is going to be:
http://www.coltparts.com/pt_newfrontier.html

A broken or cracked bolt / trigger spring. (#17)
A dry or galled hammer bolt cam. (#4, but you can't see the bolt cam on the other side of the hammer)
A dry or galled bolt (split spring) hanging on the hammer cam. (#16)

Generally, if the hand works at all, the hand spring isn't weak or broken.

rc

 

[Ryanxia]

Thanks RC, that diagram will help a lot. The reason my first thought was the cylinder hand spring is that I just replaced one on another revolver I have and it would rotate the cylinder but several times not rotate it properly to the correct firing position.

And I did try to lube it but haven't disassembled it completely yet so haven't ruled that out.

 

[rcmodel]

Here's a test.

Hold the revoler muzzle straight up and try to cock it.

If the hand spring is broken, it will fall to the rear and not contact the ratchet and turn the cylinder at all.

If it is just weak, it might, but probably not as reliably as muzzle pointed straight down at the floor.

If it makes no differance, it is probably something else.

rc

 

[Ryanxia]

Well said RC, I've actually tried that and it's done much of the same. That's kind of why I thought it was a 'weak' spring rather than a broken one. However you're right that it may not be the issue, it just seemed like the cylinder hand didn't come out far enough to effectively rotate the cylinder.

 

[Ryanxia]

Check the cylinder base pin for fouling, burrs or a bent pin.

Check the base pin hole in the cylinder for fouling or debris, rust, etc.

Check the frame breech face for burrs, fouling or a protruding crater around the firing pin hole.

Check the cylinder ratchets for damage or burrs.

Check the hand for chips, wear, or other damage.

Check action function with the cylinder and base pin out. Check function with only the base pin in.

Check function with the cylinder loaded with ONE round. Try it with the one round in each of all six chambers, one chamber at a time.

Make sure the base pin is properly lubricated.

Try different, better grade ammo. Cheap ammo is often a cause of odd problems.

I checked the above and everything seems to be good. I got to the bold part, the action works fine with the base pin in and no cylinder, there doesn't seem to be any burrs anywhere and I oiled the base pin. I didn't bother putting any ammunition in it since it still hangs up with empty chambers.

I'll post some detailed pictures tomorrow to see if that sheds some light.

Also, when it's seizing up, I can see a gap between the cylinder and forcing cone and the detent on the bottom that lets the cylinder free (sorry forget the name tonight) is all the way down and not interfering.

 

[1911Tuner]

I ran into this problem once with a Cimarron Model P in which the previous owner had installed a Belt Mountain base pin. Either the pin hole in the cylinder or the frame was on a slight angle, and the few thousandths larger diameter pin put it in a bind...but only with ammunition in the chambers. Empty, it was fine.

I chucked the pin in a lathe and spun it at high rpms and touched it with a smooth mill file to reduce the diameter .002 inch just where the cylinder turned. Problem disappeared.

 

[Jim K]

That is not a SAA and some parts are different. You might take a look at the cylinder stop and with the cylinder out make sure it moves freely and isn't spread out or bent.

Jim

 

[1911Tuner]

But it's got a base pin.

I wouldn't expect a Colt to have the holes drilled cattywampus, but one never knows.

 

[Jim K]

Another thing it has is a two step hand, and that could be the problem. The first step (the top "finger") engages a ratchet tooth to start the cylinder around, then the second, or lower, finger picks up the next ratchet tooth to move the cylinder into alignment. If that pickup does not happen smoothly, there will be a distinct hesitation or even stoppage of the cylinder movement. The fix is simple, but tricky, removing some metal, at an angle, from the lower finger. But if not done right, the hand can be ruined, so it is a good idea to have a spare hand before trying to correct that problem. (If the problem can be traced to one ratchet tooth, the fix can be applied there, but hands are cheaper than cylinders, so it is always best to work on the cheap part.)

One way to check this is to mark the cylinder with a felt tip at the point where it hangs up. If it hangs up on the same chamber each time, the problem may be as described.

Jim

 

[Ryanxia]

Thanks Jim, I think it's happening on multiple chambers but I'll check again.

I haven't forgotten about the pictures, just been busy, I'll get them up this weekend.