Colt SAA 45 - Clone or Real Thing

[Zip7]

if I bought a Colt SAA, I would put it in the box in a Safe deposit box and let it rise in value

Not me, I would shoot the out of it! I didn't live in the time period when they were THE handgun, and to me using one as a working gun would be the draw to having one. So I'd probably want to take it deer hunting...

Reason I can't afford one is that people have been sticking them in safes for years now. What the heck I may just splurge and scratch up another fine collectable!

I'll tell you a little tale about what guns are really worth... My dad died 3 years ago kind of unexpectedly, and the only provision in his will was that his guns went to me. Everything else to Mom, my sister and me. So I inherited around 45 guns in addition to what I already had. My dad was sort of a Colt loving guy - although he didn't have a SAA (how I wish...) because they were so expensive. He did lust after them though... His favorite colt was the Woodsman, because he grew up shooting one. So I have several pretty nice Woodsmans. I also inherited a Colt Python from him that he bought when I was in my early teens (about 30 years ago) and it was never fired, and still had the box & papers, etc.. He didn't really buy it as an investment, but just never got around to taking it out to shoot.

Now the difference between those is, I sold the Python and bought two other guns with what I got for it. My dad would have approved, since I sold it for well over twice what he paid for it. On the other hand, I will NEVER sell any of my Woodsmans, and I take one or two out to the range and shoot them every time I go. Every time I pull the trigger on a Woodsman, I think of my Dad. It wasn't the same with the Python, because, while it was an extremely sweet gun, it wasn't HIS in the same way, and since my dad raised me, I think like him in lots of matters and so I didn't feel that it was worth $500 to shoot it once.

So if I ever find a fair deal on a Colt SAA that is not being sold as an investment, I'll probably take it and buy a box of ammo the same day, and make it forever MINE!

 

[Pilot]

I'm now aware of SAA "clones" such as the STI Texican, the Uberti's, the USFA's and the Vaqueros. My question is, apart from perhaps the cost to do so, why would one purchase a clone rather than simply purchase a Colt? Or, is it really a cost issue?

My choice was between a Colt, Ruger and USFA. I eventually wanted the traditional SAA action, not the transfer bar safety of the Ruger, so I narrowed it down to Colt and USFA. Cost made up my mind as I could get a new USFA Rodeo for $450 instead of a new Colt for over $1,000. The Rodeo has a matte black finish, but the internals are the same as their more expensive SAA offerings. I have been very happy with the Rodeo.

 

[Bullet Bob]

Guns aren't an investment for me, I just love to shoot 'em. Here's my .38-40 SAA in a El Paso Saddlery "Hellfire" holster - definitely a "TV Cowboy" type rig. Just because you get older doesn't mean you have to grow up.



One more for the road:

 

[RPCVYemen]

First, I do not consider Rugers clones of anything. Different design entirely. I like them for what they are - Rugers..

That's the key point for me - Bill Ruger seems to me to have a passion for interpreting classic designs in very practical modern designs. From what friends tell me, the Blackhawk pretty much invented the modern SA market - mostly for hunters. The Blackhawk was evidently a favorite of hunters long before the CAS sport really took off.

The same is true of the #1 rifle - it's an interpretation of a classic design - not a clone.

Mike

 

[mtngunr]

Actually, it was the original Single Six that tapped into the '50's cowboy craze and ushered in the CF Blackhawk....Colt had declared the SA dead and buried (no doubt helped in that declaration by the fact they'd had to leave SAA tooling outside rusting away while they concentrated on wartime production)....Colt caught back on quickly, the 2nd Generation SAA introduced mid-'50's on rushed tooling (which didn't hold up and the "why" of the 3rd Gen. guns)....and the Blackhawk of that time was a much simpler more Colt-like gun than the latest New Model Vaquero, which not only has New Model lockwork, but includes cylinder ratchet plunger for loading index and hammer-strut safety....

As for who makes the best what, personally I'd put the lowly Rodeo up against my early 2nd Gen. SAA in quality (if not adherance to original design)....Brian Pearce (whose opinion I trust, and who definitely likes Colts) consistantly writes USFA's are higher quality than current Colts....however, I'd like to point out that Colt still builds their guns the old way, much less automated CNC parts manufacture, and one builder still sits there and finishes up each gun by hand....where the "new" guy there only has been finishing up guns for several decades....

 

[Lashlarue]

Which is why the cylinder in my 1965 Colt has six different size holes in the cylinder which is why I don't shoot it anymore. some casings fall out, other take a rubber mallet to remove.My old model Vaquero was huge heavy, but smooth and shot well, I made the mistake of getting it in stainless and it lacked the look of realism I desired.My Uberti Buckhorn[92] had a few mechanical problems and lacked the accuracy I desired, it too did not have fit the Colt suffered from.My latest a Cimarron Pistolero bought sight unseen has turned out to be the Cinderella of the group. Cylinder to forcing cone gap of .002. All the cylinder holes are identical in size.Bore measurement was between 001 and 0015 undersize.The lands are sharp and well defined. I don't shoot anything but copper jacketed bullets, mostly round nose, a requirement at the indoor ranges I use.If I want lead in my system I'll get it from my gkids Mattel toys....As soon as I save up enough to pay for the gasoline, the closest air conditioned indoor range is 25+ miles I'll check out the accuracy of this new toy of mine and hopefully remember to take home the target and post it for all to see.

 

[Harve Curry]

I shoot my new COLT SAA and carry it almost everday. 44spl, engraved and made for me with 3 gold inlays in the front sight for elevation. I don't know about the quality of other copies out there right now, but I am hitting a man size steel plate at 100 and 200 yards from a standing position with a two hand hold. When I got it two years ago it printed a 8" group at 100 yards from a rest. I changed the trigger/bolt spring, trigger side was to heavy, due to state laws where there made.
As to case colors, if you use it they wear off.
I see by the price comparison links above post links COLT is less money then a Turnbull-USFA or a Texican.
I will say for price, durability and sometimes accuracy RUGER SA is the best deal going and you can carry with all 6. A freinds 357 magnum Blackhawk makes it easy to hit the 100 yard plate, good sights.
If COLT made one in the full 10mm cartridge I'd have another convert, because his Delta Elite throws brass everywhere.
All Americans should have at least one engraved SAA made up just for themselves.

 

[CSA 357]

I Have A Colt Ssa In 45 Lc, Its A Good Shooter, The Copys Are Nice Too, But I Have Always Wanted A Colt Saa 43/4 So Thats What I Got, Csa

 

[Zip7]

They have a NIB Colt SAA at a local gunshop on consignment... it's purty.

It's causing me to lose sleep at night!

 

[Feanaro]

I just don't see buying a non-colt that is more expensive then a colt unless it has a LOT of nice features, as the colt has a history of gaining/maintaining value.

Which isn't important if you don't plan to sell it. Some firearms can be good investments but, unless you know the game, they are outright TERRIBLE ways to invest money.

So why buy the Colt if you don't care what it's worth in 50 years, except to have a prancing pony and "COLT" on the side? Those aren't bad reasons. I'd jump at the chance to have a "real" Colt SAA. But my definition of "real" is the first generation. All the ones after that are just modern clones don'tcha'know?

 

[AJD]

Concerning prices on USFA.

Since they offer so many different options and since they post a "retail" price on the website the conception by many is that USFA prices are the highest among SAA makers.

This is not true if you make the proper comparisons.

For example, the Single Action lists for a retail price of $875(which is below what 99% of what dealers would charge) and can be had from Gary Granger on Gunbroker.com for $795 right now. This is the model most comparable with the Colt. It has a bright blue finish and color case hardened frame with a white sided hammer and hard rubber grips. The same as you would find on a Colt SAA made today. The lowest price I've ever seen from a retail gun store is $1087 for a NIB Colt. So the USFA Single Action can be had for $292 less than the Colt SAA. THESE ARE THE SAME STYLE MODELS.

Now we look at the USFA Pre-War or Turnbull Cowboy Classic(same exact gun except for the serial number is different on the Turnbull model).

Turnbull charges $1200 on their website. This model has the Pre-WWII style carbona bluing and also has a color case hardened hammer. Unlike the previous models mentioned. They call it a Pre-War because its basically an exact replica of a 1st Generation Colt as they would have looked. Including the conical firing pin(which is on all USFA guns) versus the firing pin used on current Colt's. It costs but its not the same as a standard Colt SAA and direct comparisons don't really make sense as they aren't offering the same thing.

I have owned Colt's and USFA made in the last two years and I think either one would make its owner happy. From my experience USFA maintains a higher quality standard by an easy margin. Colt's are still GREAT, its just USFA's are just that darn good.

I fully understand the appeal of owning a "real" Colt. I stick with Colt when it comes to 1911's and AR15's and I like the fact they are Colt's just for the sake of the name besides the quality.

 

[Drgong]

Dont get me wrong, I would buy a clone in a moment, but if the guns are the same, and it a colt and a clone, then I am going to get a colt since If I need to sell it I can get more money. (I don't think the rugers are really clones, their rugers...

 

[Harve Curry]

Colts are Colts , Rugers are among themselves as well. All else is a copy, which is a compliment to Colt.

 

[mtngunr]

Point of order, here...."carbona" or "carbonia" blueing was never offered by Colt....it's a Smith/Wesson name for their own oven-fired blueing process, and a recipe/ingredients lost for all time....at the turn of the century, Colt did offer lovely gas/oven-fired blueing, but by shortly before WWII, everyone was going with the Mauser-invented hot caustic blueing on commercial guns....carbona is another hype word being used by gun sellers, modern steels not able to be gas/oven-blued like early primitive steels....they all offer some treatment that "appears" to be such an old-style blueing, but the method is completely different.

Back to the quality issue, I own a Colt 1911 repro, and quality is second to none and better than most...fit/finish/1"@25yds is simply top drawer...and it's a Colt....if their SAA quality is equal to or better than a USFA, they're worth the money....my Colts have been 1st/2nd Gen guns, and exceptional....the USFA's I own HAD to measure up to those Colts, and they did....I'm no snob, I just want good stuff....and I don't like garbage, no matter whose name is on it....but, if the name is making good stuff, why not buy the name, even at a premium?

 

[Chihuahua Floyd]

I have Ruger Blackhawks and Uberti clones. I can't afford a real Colt so I shoot the clones in CAS. Friends who have tried them out love them. Plan on getting two more to retire the blackhawks (6.5" barrels are to long for daughter)
CF

 

[calaverasslim]

I have been reading these replies and have to agree with several posters, 1858 mainly. Having said that:


I own 4 different Colts SAA's, 3 different USFA's and I fully believe that the USFA, right out of the box is better than a Colt. However, with a little help from a good 'smith, the Colt shines.

My 3rd Gen. (4th really), 44-40, really needed help and after John finished, it is perfect.

A 44 special and 2 45lc's make up the balance.

I have 3 USFA's in 44-40, Rodeo, Gunslinger and their Post War model.

The gun I carry out in the field is my Gunslinger which is the most accurate, reliable SAA I own.

I just sold the last Uberti and since I have the others will probably never own another but if I were buying my first SAA, a Uberti is a good bet.

Someone mentioned that you can buy a Rodeo for just a little more than a Uberti but to someone on a budget, there is a difference.

The onliest problem I have with Uberti is they are so rough and they do need smith help.

I can't comment on the Taurus, STI or any of the others since I don't have any experience with them, but all said and done:::::


There ain't nothing like a COLT!!!!!!!!!

 

[Phil DeGraves]

Colts are Colts , Rugers are among themselves as well. All else is a copy, which is a compliment to Colt.

I shot CAS for years and always felt (and was always told) that the Ubertis "were just as good as the Colts." Well, as luck would have it, I fell into some Colts and I can tell you this: The Italian copies of the Colts can't hold a candle to the real thing. The Colts are worth every dime.

Now, the only Iti copies I have are of the Remington '75 and the Open Top/Conversion guns, just so I can have them in a modern caliber.

 

[Lashlarue]

I have a vintage 65 Colt, to a collector its worth a lot to a shooter it's a PITA. CNC machining had not been invented and two of my cylinder holes are undersize which means if I shoot the damn thing I use a small mallet to remove the spent shells.I still managed to break the head off the ejector twice.My 92 model Uberti doesn't hold a candle to my 2008 Cimarron which cost a fraction of a Colt or USFA. Modern production methods make for higher quality pistols regardless of the brand name. Even the German made EAA Bounty Hunters are decent pistols at less than $300....

 

[dapster]

STI says the wait for a Texican is about 20 weeks. Turnbull's is out of stock and doesn't know when it will be resupplied by USFA saying that USFA has slowed down.

So, how bad if at all is a new Colt SAA? I'm asking because they are available. What kind of work might it actually need?

 

[Hawk]

I knew STI's vendor was slow as all get-out but Turnbull's a surprise - they were about swimming in the things six months ago. Mine (4-3/4 .45) was shipped from stock the same day.

Dang cowboys.

Anyhow, with the admission that I don't own one, those that have purchased new Colts seem a happy lot. I gather that any work on the newer ones is optional - they work from the box.

This is from late 2006 and would tend to put my mind at ease.
http://www.gunblast.com/Colt_SAA.htm

I'm not sure about the wait but you might want to check Freedom Arms '97. If you flip them an extra 35.00 (or thereabouts) they'll flute the cylinder and make it look a bit more traditional.

Edited to add: of all the things that I've lost I think I miss my memory the worst. The FA fluting charge is 59.00. Don't know if it's 59.00 up from 35.00 or if it never was 35.00.

 

[weisse52]

Colts are Colts , Rugers are among themselves as well. All else is a copy, which is a compliment to Colt.

A Colt is always the right answer!

I have seen some USFA pieces and they look to be wonderful SA revolvers.

One question, of those who are dissing the Colt, have you even handled or shot one? Well? My guess is for alot you have not. Just want to talk up yours without knowing about the orginal.
For something that so many people want to talk about like dirt, they sure seem to sell just fine.

 

[scrat]

weisse52. I agree with you to a point. Though i do like Colts a lot. They dont always fit ones budget. Thats why its sometimes easier to purchase that gun that looks like a Colt for hundreds of dollars less. Not all of us have enough guns to qualify us to say which gun is better than the other. A lot of what we read and see on here is BIAS. As one will give you their opinion on the guns they have. Most of the time if they like the gun. Guess what to them its better than a Colt. Haven used Colts and seen their insides. They make very very fine guns. The finish is fabulous. There are differeces that many people may not know unless you look at both side by side. though if i had the money all the time you would probably see a lot more colts in my safes. However you have to think about cost too.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I didn't think an original Colt was such a big deal until I handled one and then fired it. Well, there is something to be said about a Colt. It's a great gun and it does feel better in your hand than any of the clones I've ever felt/shot.

That being said, if you can find an old Vaquero you won't be disappointed either. You don't get the classic 4 Colt clicks when you pull the hammer back but they are great shooters too. Also, USAF makes great Colt copies. They are hand fitted and made in the USA with American parts by American craftsmen. What's not to like? Their Rodeo revolver Lists for $550 and their Rodeo II in Nickel Lists for $605. Both are great shooters and if you want something better they have revolvers that List from $875 up to over $1400 without options.

I do like my Ruger Bisley Vaquero though...