Colt SAA Clone Mystery. Help!

[meef]

A friend gave me a really nice Colt SAA clone and asked if I could identify the maker for him.

It's a very slick, well-made revolver. The numbers are in all the right places just like on an actual Colt SAA. But nowhere on any potion of this gun is there any clue as to who or where it was made.

The serial number is C00891 and it's on the frame, cylinder, grip and trigger. Below the serial number on the frame is "CAT 4520" and on the left side of the trigger guard is "CAL 45". Otherwise, there is no indication of anything else.

Any of the Colt clone knowledgeable folks here have any clue on this? I'm stumped.

 

[BCCL]

You might take the ejector rod assembly off, to see if there are any proofmarks or importer marks under it.

 

[rcmodel]

Looks like a Cimarron (Uberti) Artillery model some master beater jeweled the hammer on.
They were marked as correct as possible without running afowl of Colt's trademarks.

I have a Cavalry model with the same markings and no other names on it except under the ejector rod housing.

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/ModelP/CA513A-USVArtillery.htm
http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/ModelP/CA514-7thCavalry.htm

rc

 

[Jim Watson]

"Cat 4520" is an Italian maker's catalog number, I think Uberti.
The gun is otherwise a mish-mash.
The "US" stamp on the "black powder" frame and inspector's cartouche on the grip indicate a reproduction military SAA but the 4 3/4" barrel was not used by the Army.
I would say it was "defarbed" and customized to suit a SASS or NCOWS shooter, but the jeweled hammer contradicts that.

As the Scottish veterinarian said of his client's mongrel, "best call it a wee brown doggie."

 

[meef]

Mystery solved!

Thank you gentlemen, one and all. I knew that THR was the place to get informed answers.

Removing the ejector rod housing was indeed the trick. It is a Uberti (as was speculated). Along with the Uberti info was also PL Sanders with "AZ" in a box. Don't know if that means anything special or relevant, but there it was.

Jim Watson - regarding the inspector's cartouche on the grip, I searched the Uberti site and could find nothing that referred to "KPC" like the one on this gun. Any ideas?

Feels like a relatively heavy duty piece, would it be safe to fire heavy loads (excluding the "Ruger-Only" variety) in it?

Thanks again for solving this issue for me. Cowboy-style firearms are out of my field.

Oh, and - any guesses as to what the fair market value of this item might be? I think I'd like to make him an offer for it.

 

[rcmodel]

would it be safe to fire heavy loads

Best to stay with standard pressure .45 Colt loads.

A modern real Colt SAA is safe to 23,000 PSI, but those Italian mystery metal guns are only proof tested for standard 14,000 PSI loads.

rc

 

[meef]

Best to stay with standard pressure .45 Colt loads.

Okay. Makes sense. I can live with that.

Literally.

 

[Jim K]

I would be more than a bit leery of that gun. It doesn't look like Uberti's normal case coloring and appears to have been polished after market as shown by the dished screw holes.

I think the frame and cylinder were heavily polished and then the cylinder blued with cold blue and the frame colored with a torch. My word to the wise would be that if buying, don't.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

Hmm. I knew the colors looked funny but just put it down to the picture.

I don't know the various Army inspectors, but maybe they just made one up to LOOK kind of authentic. Many reproductions copy the original markings except that they don't actually say "Colt."

Careful powder choice can get you ample power within limits. Lyman shows True Blue driving a 250 gr bullet over 900 fps at less than 14,000 CUP, for example.

 

[Dudemeister]

...I think the frame and cylinder were heavily polished and then the cylinder blued with cold blue and the frame colored with a torch.

Jim

I think Jim is absolutely right. The coloring on the frame is not normal coloring, and it looks exactly like the colors you get when you use a torch to heat up certain areas on a steel surface. If this is indeed the case, that frame is no longer safe, and could fracture on you during stress. And you don't want to be holding on to that gun when it happens.

If you didn't buy yet, don't. If you did, try to return it, otherwise, put in a case and hang it on a wall. I suppose you can always shoot it with blanks, or wax bullets, but I wouldn't put a live round in that.

 

[bannockburn]

I agree with the others: it looks like someone did a serious torch job on the frame as that is not what actual color case hardening should look like. It also appears as if the cylinder was unevenly polished with a grinding wheel and then cold blued. Also take a look at how the flutes and the notches on the cylinder are heavily rounded and wavy. Definitely an example of questionable cosmetic gunsmithing gone bad.

 

[meef]

You guys have convinced beyond the point of no return. I'll gladly defer to folks who know more about something than I do, and in this instance there's no doubt in my mind.

Thanks for saving me some $$$, and more importantly - maybe some fingers or whatever....

There's always another SAA clone (or maybe a real one?) out there somewhere waiting for the right buyer to come along.

Advice and input much appreciated.