Colt style shoulder stock questions

[sackettboys]

Picked this up sometime last year at a local gunshop thinking it would a nice addition to my BP revolvers. Even though I had one years ago for my 1860 Colt repro, I didn't realize (or had forgotten) that there are two different versions of shoulder stocks and the one I have I believe is for the 1851...or maybe not.



I have a couple of questions about the stock.

#1. The frame width on the 60 Armies & 51 Navies are approx 7/8" wide, the frame on the stock is 1" wide, is that about right? I know that you have to replace the hammer screw with a longer one with a nut (on the 51 Navy) but this seems a little too wide to me. There's about 1/8" of play between the frame of the revolver and stockwork.







#2 What is the purpose of this spring? Doesn't look like it serves any purpose.



I would appreciate any input from someone who has one.

 

[ironhead7544]

Could be for the Dragoon.

 

[junkman_01]

I know that you have to replace the hammer screw with a longer one with a nut

I never heard of such a thing. The guns that are cut for a shouilder stock have a forth screw in both sides of the frame for the stock to attach to.

 

[BHP FAN]

There is a type where you replace the hammer screw, but it's for Remingtons. I think EMF has them.

 

[junkman_01]

I thought the OP was asking about Colt shoulder stocks as the one he pictured is a Colt type (or at least I think it is).

 

[robhof]

That spring acts as a sort of lock washer applying tension to the threads when tight to keep the retaining bolt from loosening during firing.

 

[TheRodDoc]

After all the looking I did to find a colt style shoulder stock I did find one like you show. It was made to fit a pietta 1860 army three screw gun without the recoil sheild cut outs.
it was made by them for their guns. It is not a Colt style. I passed on it.

 

[sackettboys]

junkman 01

Quote - "I never heard of such a thing. The guns that are cut for a shouilder stock have a forth screw in both sides of the frame for the stock to attach to."

I amended my original post as that comment referred to the 51 Navy not the 60 Army. I know Colt made some 51 Navies that had the recoil shield cutout like the 60 Army, but this is not the stock made for that. This is not a 4th screw stock.

But then again, it could be for a dragoon. Here's a pic of a dragoon shoulder stock for 1st model? (I believe it belongs to madcratebuilder)

 

[junkman_01]

OK sackettboys,

I thought you were looking for an 1860 Colt stock.

 

[TheRodDoc]

Junkman,

Here is an original 1860 colt 3 screw stock for sale.
open slots vs. the Pietta version.

http://http://www.soldusa.com/rainworx/detail.asp?id=33585

 

[Fingers McGee]

The shoulder stocks with the rounded mounting like the one Sackettboys shows in the OP is made to fit 4 screw frames without the recoil sheild cut. They are sized to fit 1851s, Dragoons, and Remmies. The shoulder stocks that fit the 1860s and 1851/1861s with recoil sheild cuts have a hooked mounting that bears on the frame at the recoild sheild cut. They can be either 3 or 4 screw frames. It is the hook that holds the stock on. On the rounded mounting stocks, it's the 4th screw that that the stock bears on and holds it on.

 

[madcratebuilder]

As usual the Coltmaster has answered the question. It certainly appears to be for a four screw holster frame Colt revolver. The width at the grip frame is close between horse frame (1.110) and holster frame (.950). That small flat spring is the keep the J hook from falling out of the stock if the knob is completely removed from the stud.

 

[sackettboys]

madcratebuilder/fingers-

Thanks for the great info-

They are sized to fit 1851s, Dragoons, and Remmies

Does this mean that it was one size fit all or there are shoulder stocks with different widths to accomodate the different revolvers?

When I first saw the stock I thought it was for a 60 Army, but the guy behind the counter said no, it for a dragoon. He had got it in trade from a CW re-enactor. I don't have access to a dragoon so I don't if it fits a dragoon or not.

 

[Fingers McGee]

Does this mean that it was one size fit all or there are shoulder stocks with different widths to accomodate the different revolvers?

Sorry, I wasnt too clear on that point. They are different sizes of mounting hardware for the Dragoons, 1860s and Remmies that use the rounded mounting. The difference is in the distance and the angle between the screw cut on the mount and the latch hook as well as the width of the opening.

The 58 Remmington stock mounts on an extended hammer screw instead of a fourth frame screw. IIRC, there are some 1851 Navy mounts that use the extended hammer screw as well.

There is also a difference in the distance, angle and width between the hook styled mountings for the Dragoon, 1851/61 and 1860 as well.

And Just to add more confusion, a shoulder stock that fits a Uberti may not fit a Pietta and vice versa. Iv'e got stocks that fit Uberti and ASM 1860s just fine that don't come close to fitting a Pietta

 

[sackettboys]

The difference is in the distance and the angle between the screw cut on the mount and the latch hook as well as the width of the opening.

Fingers - would you happen to know what the width opening size is for a dragoon on the rounded mounting? Still trying to figure out if this stock is for the dragoon or 51 Navy.

 

[rcflint]

The later made shoulder stock by Colt, for the SAA, also used the extended hammer screw for mounting. This was a skeleton metal stock, rather than wood. The wood stock was made for the '51 and also one that fits the Remington, I have one. Dixie Gun Works has the shoulder stock and screw, and as far as Italian guns, the threads are the same on the Remington and Colt styles.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=12456

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=7271

 

[Fingers McGee]

Sorry Sackettboys, I don't currently have a Dragoon rounded mount shoulder stock. Only one I have right now is a hook mount style for an ASM 3rd model Dragoon. Opening on it is 1 1/8" and the width of the dragoon frame is 1 1/16".

I Checked a couple of my '51 Navies and 1860 Armies. Frame width varied from 7/8" to 15/16". Uberti Dragoon was 1 1/16 as was the ASM. If the opening on the stock is 1" + or minus, I'd say it was for a Navy; and if 1 1/8" + or minus, it'd be for a Dragoon.

Compare your 3 pictures. The one of just the stock, the '51 Navy with stock, and the Dragoon with stick and compare the amount of brass that the heels of the grip fits up against. On the Dragoon and the plain stock picture, the brass piece is further back and longer than the one of the Navy w/stock. I believe that this stock is for a Dragoon.

 

[bprevolver]

Shoulder stocks

I believe the shoulder stock pictured is for the 1851 Navy. These were sold with a replacement hammer screw which fit into the inside slots in the stock. This along with the screw adjustment that holds the stock to the bottom of the revolver grip holds it firm. One problem with the replacement screw that came with most of these stocks was the threads may be different with different manufacturers. Since most manufacturers used the same frame for some of the different models the stocks may interchange, like the 1851 Navy and the 1861 Navy not cut for the shoulder stock.

The stocks made for the 1860 Army four screw frame cut for shoulder stock (CSS) also would fit the 1861 Navy four screw frame CSS. However, since there were many companies making the shoulder stocks a few made stocks that would fit the 1861 Navy but too narrow to fit the 1860 Army.

The replica stocks for the 1851 3rd Model Dragoons were first made with steel hardware as were the original Colt stocks. Later brass hardware stocks were offered. It is interesting to note that the steel hardware stocks have become very rare and I know of several sales that exceeded $600. One on EBay sold for over $800 being advertised as a replica. Another interesting point is that in over sixteen years of collecting and researching the replica firearms I have purchased several steel hardware Dragoon stocks but have only come across one with the brass hardware. There has been some commemorative issue Dragoons cased with a brass hardware shoulder stocks.

Armi San Marco made a 3rd Model Dragoon with the 18” barrel that came with a steel hardware shoulder stock and holster. These were offered by Navy Arms and EMF. I recently acquired one of these sets and discovered that the stock hardware was actually brass anodized blue. The serial number on this Dragoon and the date of manufacture was at the end of the run by ASM. Evidently they just ran out of steel stocks and substituted the brass anodized stocks. Of course to me as a collector this was a great find.

Dixie Gun Works at one time offered a shoulder stock that came with a replacement hammer screw for the Remington New Model Army. At this point I have never seen one of these. I do have a buntline Remington that was fitted with the 1851 Navy type stock with the replacement screw.

On a final note for you collector type, did you know that Pietta actually made a replica 1851 Navy cut for the shoulder stock? Extremely rare.

 

[rcflint]

shoulder stock

DGW still lists the Remington stock (I have one). See:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=7271

As far as I can determine, they all use the same extended screw and nut.

 

[sackettboys]

Update-
Well, looks like it's a stock for the 1851 Navies. I ordered the shoulder stock screw set from VTI (1851 Pietta # 425 - extra long hammer shoulder screw and #429 shoulder stock nut - total 12.95 w/shipping). Taylor's has them also but shipping is quite abit higher.

The stock slips right on with no binding issues, no marks left on grip, hammer functions like it should. Lockup is rock solid.

original (left) and extra long (right)


installed -




top view - did a check to make sure had plenty of clearance for hammer function


project done -


Thanks to all for your input - sackettboys

 

[Fingers McGee]

Sweet. Guess we need an official carbine thread on here now.

 

[ironhead7544]

Looks like fun. Wish I had one.