Colt won!

[Auto426]

....we are talking a government contract here so huge discounts should be a given......you and I can buy as single unit a state of the art 1911 for a grand or so....

Can you buy a complete Colt Rail Gun, enough spare parts to assemble a complete second Rail Gun, plus any magazines, holsters, or rail attachments that may be required for $1900?

As Kleanbore has been trying to point out since the very beginning of this thread, you can't say that $1900 is a lot for a single pistol, because you are getting more than just a single pistol for that price. How some folks can't see that is baffling.

 

[Sam Cade]

Colt's competitors were Karl Lippard Designs of Colorado Springs, CO; and Springfield Armory, Inc. of Geneseo, IL.

Oh my. I have to laugh

The Combat NCO™ - the first 400-yard accurate pistol.

A standard pistol of any make has a "Defensive" range of 12 feet to 20 yards. In contrast, A Combat NCO™ is an "Offensive" pistol and is effective from 2 feet to 400 yards. This difference in a combat setting means the battlefield is pushed back; that men survive; that we at last have a superior offensive pistol.

http://karllippard.com/military/



Uhhhh...What is the velocity of 230gr hardball at 400 yards?

Reckon it would break the skin?

3-4. COMBINED FIRE. This goes hand in hand with Cover Fire. It uses the Combined Fire of all a units’ assets to bring to bear on a given target. Combined Fire is a coordinated firing of pistol, combined with rifle, adding 10-15% to a unit’s offensive firepower strength in a time of need for maximum effectiveness.

a. The Combat NCO™ has the capability to provide cover fire up to 600 yards with existing sights. That means supporting fire on a target can be covered by a radius:banghead: of 1,300 yards; a massive advantage to tactical operations. Marksman can engage from a distance which in turn demoralizes an enemy force into withdrawal or, reduces it by effective use of a Combat NCO™

From the manual:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...nDutCxEuEanJZwYRw&sig2=DMa-0QYQ40I_8gJACqhm7A

 

[Auto426]

Uhhhh...What is the velocity of 230gr hardball at 400 yards?

Reckon it would break the skin?

I believe someone worked out that at 400 yards a 230gr hardball projectile would have 377" of drop, which is pretty much impossible to hold for using the sights he shows pictured on his gun.

What speaks louder than any of Mr. Lippard's outlandish claims is that he never delivered any guns before the trial deadline expired.

 

[ColeK]

Well, guys, when went to school, $22,500,000/4,000=$5,625 per pistol!!!

 

[Auto426]

Well, guys, when went to school, $22,500,000/4,000=$5,625 per pistol!!

I guess school was to big on reading comprehension then...

 

[Certaindeaf]

Can you buy a complete Colt Rail Gun, enough spare parts to assemble a complete second Rail Gun, plus any magazines, holsters, or rail attachments that may be required for $1900?

As Kleanbore has been trying to point out since the very beginning of this thread, you can't say that $1900 is a lot for a single pistol, because you are getting more than just a single pistol for that price. How some folks can't see that is baffling.

Show us where this is said in the article cited. The article claimed/reported $1900 per so all of the magic perks, gewgaws and extras must have already been fleshed from some other number to arrive at the $1900 per pistol statement.

 

[Texan Scott]

ColeK, the actual contract is for UP TO 12,000 pistols, and is worth 22.5 mil.
They're actually only exercising the option to BUY 4,000 pistols at this time, at a cost of 7.5mil. the price per unit remains the same.

 

[Auto426]

Show us where this is said in the article cited. The article claimed/reported $1900 per so all of the magic perks, gewgaws and extras must have already been fleshed from some other number to arrive at the $1900 per pistol statement.

I never said that the items I listed were exactly what is included in the price. Rather I was trying to make a point, which still seems to be lost on some here.

Here's a quote from the Military Times article:

The contract is for 400 to 12,000 pistols as part of a contract worth up to $22.5 million, according to Marine Corps Systems Command. That means the price per pistol is $1,875. Sources tell us the Marine Corps is ordering 4000 pistols.

Here's some simple math:

$22,500,00 ÷ 12,000 pistols = $1,875

So $1,875 per pistol right? Wrong. The $22.5 million contract is for more than just pistols. Again, from the Military Times Article:

In the email to Marine Corps Times, the MARCORSYSCOM spokeperson says, “Colt Defense LLC, West Hartford, Conn., was awarded a $22,500,000 indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity contract July 18, 2012 for production, delivery and logistical support of the Close Quarter Battle Pistol. Work will be performed in West Hartford, Conn., and is expected to be completed by July 2017. No contract funds will expire by the end of the current fiscal year. This contract was competitively procured using full and open competition with three offers received. The Marine Corps System Command, Quantico, Va., is the contracting activity.”

It's unknown exactly what goes along with each pistol that Colt ships out, but what is known is that the contract is for more than just pistols. History tells us that these types of deals usually include spare parts for each gun purchased and in some cases a set of accessories for each weapon.

 

[C0untZer0]

I'm sure the union is happy - they almost killed the company, now they get to jump back on board the gravy train and ride indefinately...

 

[Mr.357Sig]

You'd think they would release a better photo of that sweet 1911. I'm sure it is one nice-looking slabside, but that photo makes it look like craphola!

 

[Certaindeaf]

^Auto426
"Logistical support" very often and conventionally means the ability and or promise to supply what might be needed in the future.. at an additional cost.

 

[C0untZer0]

I don't even beleive the story.

Military times is horrible... the journalistic standards are so low, it's a joke.

IMO - it was pretty much cooked up by a bunch of old Chester Puller curmudgeons who were dead set on the .45 anyway and the hell with the rest of NATO - blah blah blah. If they bought a few thousand of these for some special unit or something then maybe it's possible, but I don't see the entire corps throwing away the nines.

 

[Snag]

I don't know why everyone is mad at the price of this pistol. I'm totally fine with our troops having a fine ass pistol to pack, good for them. I can think of worse ways to spend my tax money.

 

[Texan Scott]

Did you read the story? it's 4,000 guns for the MARSOC... spec ops.

ETA: what was the point of disparaging Chesty Puller, or men like him? and... keeping the .45 is not novel. Most of our spec ops units do.
EATA: disparaging the 'journalistic standards' of a publication because one us not pleased with the information they convey is a weak tactic employed all too often by people incapable of rational debate on the basis of reported facts they find inconvenient.

Further, the USMC cosists of men (and a few women, too) who voluntarily serve their country's interests with their lives and sometimes their deaths. I cannot comprehend how ANYONE could begrudge them even the cheapest tool that meets their needs.

I'm done with this one.

 

[JEB]

I don't know why everyone is mad at the price of this pistol. I'm totally fine with our troops having a fine ass pistol to pack, good for them. I can think of worse ways to spend my tax money.

my thoughts exactly. with all the spare parts and support and what not, it dosent seem all that bad. in the end, they are the ones putting their lives on the line for our country and i whole heartedly feel that they should have the best equipment available, and if that means a $1,900 colt then so be it.

 

[saturno_v]

I give you the benefit of the doubts...someone can break down "logistic support"?? because as a standalone pistol, not taking in consideration the "logistic support" and considering the amount the government buys, that should be a $700-800 pistol give or take if not even less...


And please spare me the patriotic rant about giving the best to our troops.....you need to give them the best at the best price you can get....when it comes to guns some of you guys would justify even a 10 grand pistol the hell with taxpayer money...they do not grow on trees.....


We do nto even know if this unit really need that pistol in the first place....or if was a way to burn up taxpayer money (aka other's people money)

 

[Georgia45cal]

It's great to hear the Marines are getting good gear to use.

As a tax payer, I say buy them more Colt Rail Guns.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

'm scratching my head as to why this design is still desired by the US Military.

My theory is that it's a macho thing. They are the Marines, they get the cool looking .45s while the Army gets their run of the mill Beretta M9 in 9mm because the Marines are the best!

 

[Mauser lover]

Why the single stack still? If they used a double stack, it would be able to fulfill all the needs that the Beretta does, and still be able to do some reasonable damage. I would like to see the military go back to .45, if only because it is an American cartridge. S&W M&P would be a good place to start looking for a good platform if you ask me. Not that I dislike 1911s, but they are a bit spendy...

 

[crazyjennyblack]

I kinda see both sides of the issue. On one hand, I can buy a Glock or a bargain 1911 or a Beretta and be well under the $1000 mark, and the gun will go bang every time. Why the need for what looks like an expensive custom piece? On the other side, I've heard from a cousin who is in the military what a Marine can do to his equipment. (Something along the lines of if you put a tied up gentleman in a locked room with two stones overnight, one will be broken and the other missing by morning...)

I'm assuming this contract basically comes with gunsmithing by Colt prepaid. In that case, I can only imagine that the anticipated gunsmithing could cost more than the actual pistol during the life of the weapon. Ever had someone do custom work or repair work on a 1911? I have, and the cost rises quickly. I'm thinking part of why this contract costs so much is because the Marine Corps is having Colt do guaranteed lifetime repairs, rather than having unit armorers do it?

The only part I have a real beef about when it comes to this is simply a personal one. All this talk about a "competitive" contract seems a lot like those job ads in the newspaper that offer "competitive" salary but wont tell you what that salary actually is before you fill out the stinkin' application. Too much fly-by-night stuff where the real details of how and why aren't laid out. This whole thing needs more info to satisfy taxpayer curiosity, and I'm sure if that were provided in greater detail there might be a few less naysayers.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Why the single stack still? If they used a double stack, it would be able to fulfill all the needs that the Beretta does, and still be able to do some reasonable damage. I would like to see the military go back to .45, if only because it is an American cartridge. S&W M&P would be a good place to start looking for a good platform if you ask me. Not that I dislike 1911s, but they are a bit spendy...

Handguns don't win wars and are rarely used. Mag capacity doesn't make a whole lot of difference. Personally I would rather see the US military go to the .40 S&W cartridge.

 

[1SOW]

The Close Quarter Battle Pistol is modeled after earlier versions of the semi-automatic 1911 pistol used since the 1980s by Force Reconnaissance units. The contract is for 400 to 12,000 pistols as part of a contract worth up to $22.5 million, according to Marine Corps Systems Command. That means the price per pistol is $1,875. Sources tell us the Marine Corps is ordering 4000 pistols

The civilian 1911 rail gun usually has a stainless or carbon steel finish and rosewood grips, but Colt’s prototypes for the Corps have a desert-color Cercoat finish, eliminating glare on the weapon and making it less identifiable at a distance. As the name suggests, this model has a section of 1913 Picatinny rail under the barrel to mount accessories such as a light or laser aiming device. They also have more stainless steel internal components to reduce corrosion. They’re equipped with a tritium night sight made by Novak of Parkersburg, W.Va..

Interesting

 

[Mauser lover]

I understand that magazine capacity isn't usually an issue, but it takes one argument away from staying with the Beretta. And I dislike the Beretta. I wouldn't have a problem with the .40 Short & Weak, as it is a uniquely American cartridge as well. But please, at least get a gun that is designed by an American. And manufactured by a REAL American company (Colt, S&W, etc.), not some pseudo American offshoot of a European company.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Certaindeaf: "Logistical support" very often and conventionally means the ability and or promise to supply what might be needed in the future.. at an additional cost.

What the term "very ofter and conventionally means" in other contexts means nothing; in this case it is a line item in a contract.

 

[Mp7]

plain stupid. Does it do anything a "cheap" 45. Glock cant do?