Columbia, SC police department adopting FN FNS-9

[Jaymo]

.45 ACP is not a difficult round to shoot well. Jeff Cooper's daughter shot it well.
I had a girlfriend who preferred my .45 to any other pistol.
.45 Tupperware guns aren't a lot of fun to shoot because they are too light for their caliber.
If qualification scores are a problem with the .45, then more training is needed. To be honest, most departments should give more training.

 

[surratt95]

When you can't get your own employees to carry your guns. That says all I need to know.

 

[balance 740]

I don't trust FN's polymer pistols. I don't think they do enough testing before releasing them, and every FN polymer pistol other than the Five-seveN has had design issues that could stop the pistol from functioning.

-FNS:

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/my-take-on-the-fn-s-striker-fire-pistol

There are a couple of situations where the slide will lock up cannot be racked. When this happens, the slide can only be released by pulling the trigger. This can be disasterous in a defensive situation (especially during a malfunction if you can’t clear a bad round) and dangerous even for more casual shooting if an inexperienced person is unfamiliar with the problem.



According to the instructors with whom I spoke, the slide locking problem happens most often if the muzzle is struck (which could occur during a struggle over the gun or if the gun is dropped in a fight). It doesn’t seem to take much force to cause the slide to freeze.



Slide lockup also occurs when the butt of the gun is struck while the muzzle is pointed in any direction below horizontal (from parallel with the ground downward). This could happen when aggressively seating a magazine or when performing a malfunction clearance drill.

-The FNX had issues where the trigger would not release the hammer in the DA pull if the pistol got "hot", as in sitting in the sunlight for a matter of minutes.

-The FNP-45 had issues where the trigger pin would walk out seizing up the pistol, not allowing the trigger to be pulled, the hammer to be cocked, or the slide to be racked.

-The FNP had issues with the sear housing cracking.

I never looked into the Forty Nine, but a quick search on Google turns up some first hand reports of people having design related issues with them as well. Trust them if you want, but given the previous issues they have had with almost every model of polymer pistol they have made, I personally would give any new polymer pistol from FN at least a few years on the market before I would trust it.

 

[PabloJ]

Belgian choks are much better then their modern guns. The two Belgian standouts were FAL and FNMAG. The P-35 pistole does not count because it was American design.

 

[NG VI]

Had an FNP-9M that was outstanding.

Never an issue, accurate, comfortable in the hand, ideal size for a carry gun larger than the Glock 26/27 or the non-service subcompacts/pocket pistols, I loved that gun.

Can't imagine the FNS will be a poor choice for a police department.

 

[HorseSoldier]

I'm not saying the FN is not a good pistol, but the first question that should have been asked that I doubt was asked was "Does the department NEED to switch pistols?" I doubt there was a serious evaluation of the department's needs and whether the current service pistol was meeting those needs, and if some other pistol even should to be considered.

Don't know about Columbia PD's experience with Sig, but a friend of mine is in an agency that dropped Sigs five or six years ago in favor of Glocks because Sig's customer service for their agency was just atrocious. He didn't think there was much to complain about in switching from 220s to (if I remember right) 40 cal Glocks.

The P-35 pistole does not count because it was American design.

By the time it reached production the High Power was much more a product of Saive than Browning, who died well before the finished product was completed.

 

[NG VI]

And it doesn't count as an American product if it is designed and built by a Belgian manufacturer's employees, regardless of their country of origin.

 

[wristtwister]

I had a .40 cal FNP that shot great, but it was a little "clunky" as far as being a "carry gun"... of course, I didn't have an outside holster with all my old cop toys hanging off of it either. As a service weapon, I'm sure it would have been great, and the 9MM might function as well... but I'm not a fan of going to smaller bullets. If you're going to do police work, you have to be able to make the tools you use work for you.

I certainly wouldn't trade a Sig .45 for an FN 9MM if I was an operations officer. I'd want the biggest, ugliest bullet out there... and while 9's are fun to shoot, I wouldn't want to stake my life on one doing cop work "on the street" on a 9MM. A .45 has an excellent record of putting troublemakers down for the count... and in today's world... you want to keep them down.

WT

 

[sigarms228]

I ran across this info on Glock Talk about a potential problem with the FNS. Interesting read and videos in post #12.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1439164

 

[mgmorden]

I'm sure this will do fine. Departments buy new guns from time to time. Realistically a 9mm striker fired polymer gun is a good choice for a department to go to, and for their purposes just about any of them on the market from a major manufacturer would do just as good.

FNS, Ruger SR9, Springfield XDm, Glock 17, S&W M&P, Walther P99 - whatever. These are working guns. Concealment isn't an issue and they're not looking for enjoyable range time. They just need it to work, and pretty much all of them do these days.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I ran across this info on Glock Talk about a potential problem with the FNS. Interesting read and videos in post #12.

I can see how that could be a potential problem with a dud round. The tap part of clearing drills could knock the trigger forward causing it to lock up. That is something that shouldn't be in a pistol from a company with such a large reputation.

 

[legumeofterror]

The P-35 pistole does not count because it was American design.

Dieudonné Saive, who worked on the pistol for 8 years after Browning's death and designed the magazine, would beg to differ.

 

[NG VI]

Quote:
The P-35 pistole does not count because it was American design.
Dieudonné Saive, who worked on the pistol for 8 years after Browning's death and designed the magazine, would beg to differ.

So would the people paying their salaries, thus owning all of their workplace intellectual property.

Such as firearms and machinery to produce them.

 

[Sox]

Good for FN!!! They are innovative, responsive and coming out with new things all the time.

There was talk of a compact .45 G19 size a while back. FN website has specs for a the compacts listed, but no photos yet. Spoke to a rep and I frankly asked did it remind you of G19 or a G26. He said, think more G26 ish.

Best

 

[barnbwt]

don't trust FN's polymer pistols. I don't think they do enough testing before releasing them, and every FN polymer pistol other than the Five-seveN has had design issues that could stop the pistol from functioning.

I'll trust that the issues you described are real, though I never heard of them researching the FNX/FNP I ended up not buying (for a Five-seveN instead). FWIW, the vaunted Five-seveN had (s) a stupid design flaw that can tie it up extremely easily;

On my second range trip, I guess the top-most round in the mag wasn't fully back. Upon inserting the mag, the tip of the round snagged the mag-release spring, and popped it right out! The instant I removed the mag, the spring and release catch fell to the ground. No positive way to hold the mag in anymore (without your hand, I guess). No way to drop the hammer on a chambered round without a mag in the well (mag safety). If someone was doing tac-reloads where they might not be carefully tapping every mag against their boot before loading, this issue could easily come up.

To their credit, FNH realized the issue, and developed a quality fix, which they promptly sent me free of charge. Replaced with a machined leaf spring was the cheesy bent paperclip that was the mag release return spring.

My point is, nearly all gun designs (especially new ones) have issues. The FNP and FNX are today highly respected in the identically-performing-polymer-pistol category. Heck, the Beretta 92 series had it's share of teething issues, as I recall, and they have legions (literally) of fans today.

TCB

 

[balance 740]

I'll trust that the issues you described are real, though I never heard of them researching the FNX/FNP I ended up not buying (for a Five-seveN instead).

They are real (or they were at one point in time). I don't follow FN's pistols closely enough to know if the issues have been resolved, but there were multiple people reporting that they had the issues I mentioned in their own pistols.

FWIW, the vaunted Five-seveN had (s) a stupid design flaw that can tie it up extremely easily;

If this is true, then FN has yet to release a polymer pistol model that has been free from design related issues since its release.

Personally, I wouldn't trust a new model of polymer pistol from FN until it was on the market for a matter of years first, with no reported issues waiting to be resolved.

 

[HOOfan_1]

If this is true, then FN has yet to release a polymer pistol model that has been free from design related issues since its release.
.

Glock Gen 4s had problems when first released. Smith and Wesson Sigma had problems when first released.

New designs have problems. I have an FNP-40 and have 1800 rounds through it without a single hiccup. So do countless other people in the world.

 

[solvability]

Lot of crime there - will be interesting if they have them in a year.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Glock Gen 4s had problems when first released.

That was more related to the wrong spring weight. What is with FN is a design flaw from the blue prints with that trigger issue.

 

[One_Jackal]

Many people like the 5.56 because it's easy to carry a bunch of ammo. Personally, no one can convince me that the 5.56 is a decent defense weapon. Yet the same voices say a 9mm is not adequate. The 9mm has all the same qualities of the 5.56. You can carry a bunch of ammo. The weapons are all high capacity. The 9mm has very little recoil from a full size service weapon. Yet everyone says it's not adequate. Go figure...

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Many people like the 5.56 because it's easy to carry a bunch of ammo. Personally, no one can convince me that the 5.56 is a decent defense weapon. Yet the same voices say a 9mm is not adequate. The 9mm has all the same qualities of the 5.56. You can carry a bunch of ammo. The weapons are all high capacity. The 9mm has very little recoil from a full size service weapon. Yet everyone says it's not adequate. Go figure...

There is more to 5.56 than just being able to carry more ammo and less recoil.

 

[CornCod]

Well, the P-35 (BHP) was a partial John Moses Browning design. Dieudonné Saive had as much to do with it as Browning.

 

[Fishbed77]

Just a little update... Was out at the Greek Festival today in downtown Columbia and noticed that every cop I saw was wearing a new FNS pistol, so it looks like the gun has been widely issued at this point.

None of them had a terrifed look on his or her face from being "under-gunned" due to the transition from a .45ACP SIG to a 9mm FN.

 

[khadga]

I noticed the same, Fishbed77. While I was waiting in a LONG gyro line, I tried to ask the chunky moustache and sunglasses CPD stationed by the entrance where the lines get food from inside led if he liked the safety-decocker setup on the FNS, but he acted like he couldn't hear me three feet to his right. Same friendly CPD demeanor I'm used to. Guess he was too busy scouting for insurgents to speak to a citizen.

Most cops put far more wear on their holsters than their pistols, never firing them on the job except to barely qualify, so I'm sure the FNS will holdup like the reliable Sig 220 even if it isn't.

I like the FNP-9 quite a bit, and while not a fan of the operating controls on the FNS or FNX, I'm not surprised that a department that didn't like the Glock favored a manual safety. The safety thumbs down for live, 1911 proper, but even if you (or some bureaucrat) want a thumb safety, I think integrating the decock function into the same lever is a poor idea for a combat pistol. Under pressure, the poorly trained will decock their weapon unintentionally. Even the well trained will have to re-learn their grip if they have 1911 experience, because as you ride the safety with your thumb after the draw & sweep, you'll naturally push the lever into decock.