Combat excersises and paintball

DontBurnMyFlag · Oct 21, 2005

I play paintball religously with a team of marines, LEO's and various other combat trained people. Ive been playing for about 9 years and I think its a realistic and fun training excerise. I know this brings up alot of debate. Paintballs dont go as far or as fast as bullets and they dont penetrate brush very well at all. This is true. However, I feel that having that disadvantage, it makes you use camoflauge, cover, suppressing fire and various other tactical movements to hone your skills. My military friends love it and prefer it over real combat any day

. We try to use real gun parts or mods for out paintball guns and weigh them down to real weight as much as possible. I also limit the amount of paint I use (30-40 rds in a hopper) and only fire in semi-auto mode.

Having not been in combat, I cant compare the two or really say how effective the skill would be if applied to combat. So I guess I just wanted to gauge reactions and see what you guys think.

RiverwinoIA · Oct 21, 2005

ive played lots of paintball, and am thinking about getting back into it soon.
ive never been in any form of real combat.

i do think paintball can teach some valuable lessons though.
-using camoflauge
-finding and using cover
-a little bit of adrenaline control
-team communication
-the principle of "never let up til yer dead" (miracles can and do happen).
-"battlefield control", using flanks, fields of fire, etc.

some will say "paintball cover is not bullet cover" yeah... being able to find and exploit concealment properly could be a lifesaver.

Jeff White · Oct 21, 2005

Jeff

Preacherman · Oct 21, 2005

I play paintball religously

Prayers before, during or after the game? Does the loser sacrifice something on an altar?

zahc · Oct 21, 2005

The loser is sacrificed on an altar.

At least that's the way we do it around here.

Spot77 · Oct 21, 2005

Been playing for about 10 years now. I used to think it would make a good training exercise too.

Then I got into real guns and saw how far and accurately a FAL or AR15 could shoot.

I would NEVER rely on my tactics in paintball to get me through combat.

That said (blatant infingement on a THR user's trademark) I do think that paintball can teach you a lot about teamwork and forward thinking.

And it's definately gobs of fun. :evil:

mbs357 · Oct 21, 2005

I've always liked the sound of airsoft...
Realistic functioning replicas.
Problem with paintball is that huge bucket of paintballs and the huge tank of CO2.
With airsoft though, the rounds aren't as strong or as big.

one45auto · Oct 21, 2005

Just out of curiosity, what do those paintball guns run you? I've been thinking about getting into it myself.

mbs357 · Oct 21, 2005

Uncle gets a small brochure from some company that he doesn't care about.
So I get it and look at it every so often.
They're pretty pricy...
Several hundred dollars for an M4 lookalike I believe.
Some airsoft pistols cost as much as a real one.

Spot77 · Oct 21, 2005

One45auto:

You can get a decent paintball gun for well under $200.

Tippmann makes a few that are reliable and indestructable.

Sam · Oct 21, 2005

I liked Tippman better when they were making those teensy tiny itty bitty little MGs

Sam

Strings · Oct 22, 2005

ok... you have GOT to post the instructions/parts list on that A-5 based M4gery. I WANT I WANT I WANT!!!!!

Of course, my A5 is already a bit intimidating on the field: speed collar (which is one of the BEST mods I've ever seen), and a "silencer" (which actually makes the silly thing louder. But LOOKS bad as all get out)...

IZinterrogator · Oct 22, 2005

finding and using cover

Cover stops bullets, so a large bush isn't cover. It's concealment.

english kanigit · Oct 22, 2005

Heh, alright. I can get into this thread...

The A-5 might look cool but the Tippmann 98 just wont quit.
Check your local pawnshops the last one i bought had a really nice CO2 tank with an on/off valve, a drop forward stock, a flatline and a response trigger (cool but worthless). $100. The valve setup inside the gun was busted all over and flatline was missing it's rear sight and accessories (squeegee, attatchment screws) and the response trigger was missing its tool kit (flatblade driver and gas plug).

Shipped the whole thing (less tank) to Tippmann (Gawd, UPS stores are PITAs about shipping paintball gear

) with a letter telling them where it came from, what it's problems were and how to contact me for payment.

I got the whole thing back about 3 weeks later, with the parts fixed/replaced and the accessories that came with the add-ons (flatline, RT). No bill. I've broken/ lost a few smaller parts over the year I've had my guns. I just call tippmann and tell 'em what I need. It's there in 2-3 days.

During our games, I usually go through more paint than anybody else (suppressing fire really works, even on the move!

). The only things I've added are an electro hopper and a rifled barrel.
The only downside to this gun is the level of noise it generates. We regularly tape our skirmishes and you can tell the different markers apart. Most of the electros make a very subtle pop- poppop. The A-5s are just a hair louder. My 98s make a very distinct THUNK-THUNK, or if its me on the trigger THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK *feet shuffling* THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK.

Two of my friends have A-5s and love 'em but I'll stick with my 98s thankyouverymuch.

english kanigit · Oct 22, 2005

Here you go. A-5/AKs, 98/AKs, SVD-98s, M4-98s... whatever your heart desires.
If you got the money that is.

'Course these are much more to my taste. 'Specially this one. :evil:

Jeff White · Oct 22, 2005

On Topic Please

I bet that somewhere on the world wide web there are places where people talk technical things about paintball markers....The Strategies and Tactics forum at THR isn't one of them......

Jeff

lysander · Oct 22, 2005

I'll try to reel it back on topic...

You can take this for what it is worth but I do speak from some experience. Not only do I have some military service in my background, I also have been playing paintball since 1989-90. Including 3 years touring on the early "pro-circuit" from 1993-1996. (Back in the days when the game was still played in the woods)

Here's my take on the value of paintball as a "simulation" of combat.

It isn't.

Your military and LEO friends would probably agree...paintball does offer some benefits:
1) Dealing with stress and "adrenaline dump" under fire.
2) Conditioning you so that you are able to think and act while being "shot at"

But I think it ends there. Some benefit is also derived from using purpose designed paintball guns for CQB training (as the reduced range eliminates the HUGE ballistic differences between bullets and paintballs). Overall I think that the sport teaches more bad habits than good..

1) Awful fire discipline.
2) Mistakes don't cost you more than maybe a welt or two.
3) etc., etc., etc.

Strings · Oct 22, 2005

If you're developing bad tactical habits on the paintball field, that's a personal problem. When we use paintball as a simulation, the tactics are fairly similar: only the ranges and amount of ammo carried are different. The again, we aim more for scenario, not speedball...

lysander · Oct 22, 2005

If you're developing bad tactical habits on the paintball field, that's a personal problem. When we use paintball as a simulation, the tactics are fairly similar: only the ranges and amount of ammo carried are different. The again, we aim more for scenario, not speedball...

Don't you think that vastly different ranges and the amount of ammo carried are significant differences?

How about a 2300 fps difference in projectile speed? :what:

I was speaking about paintball in general...I wasn't even addressing the various forms that the game has taken (rec, speedball, woodsball, scenario, etc.). I've been playing paintball since bulk CO2 cylinders were a big deal. Having worked at commericial fields, retail stores and for equipment manufacturers for the better part of the last 15 years or so....I might have some insight to offer.

Do you know how many times over the last 15 years people have tried to push paintball to the LEO and military community as a viable training tool? Lots. One of paintball's early success stories was a company called Airgun Designs. Much of their technology has been adapted for use in the military and LEO markets. At one point AGD spent a good deal of money setting up an elaborate training facility, with purpose designed equipment to train LEOs. They rigged cameras up in the rooms, put LED lights on the guns that flashed with each trigger pull (so they could review tape to see who shot first), etc. etc. That facility never really took off. I wonder why paintball has never been seen as more than just a novelty in the training arena? Maybe because it only effective in a very narrow set of circumstances....maybe because outside of those circumstances it teaches bad habits rather than good ones. This is MHO of course...but I feel like it is fairly accurate.

I've watched soldiers play. I've watched cops play. I've played with and against both. The fact is that the skill sets are vastly different.

Enjoy paintball for what it is...cowboys and indians for big kids...but don't think because you put on a headset microphone under your mask and play in scenario games that you are developing good tactical skills. Again YMMV.

Strings · Oct 23, 2005

It also depends on WHAT you're setting up. While the amount of ammo carried, range and velocity is VASTLY different, movement under fire isn't. Coordination isn't all that different. Movement WHILE firing isn't...

Do I think p-ball works as the ultimate trainer? No... there are things it can help teach, and others it can't. For those things that are similar, cool. The trick is knowing the difference...

Combat excersises and paintball

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