Come And Take It

[A526051]

If you have ever seen the “Come and Take It” quote in reference to Texas history, this little cannon is what it is referring to. It is on display at the museum in Gonzales Texas.
The people of Gonzales asked for help with Indian attacks early in the 1830s and the Mexican Government sent this small cannon for them to use as a show of force. The Mexicans had plugged the touch hole of the cannon to render it useless, but the People of Gonzales soon fixed that problem.
When the people of Texas started pushing back against their Mexican overseerers, the Mexicans told them to return the cannon. When the Texans refused, the Mexicans sent troops to take it, and the resulting skirmish was the start of the Texas Revolution. The women of Gonzales made a flag with the famous slogan.
Sorry for the poor pictures

 

[CapnMac]

Classical education in those days included Greek as well as Latin.
So the phrase "μολὼν λαβέ" (molon labe) would have been familiar from Plutarch's history of Leonidas.
If rather harder to sew onto a flag.

Plenty of anecdotal evidence that a lack flag bearing a white canon, lone star, and "Goliad" (by then referring to the massacre there as well) flew during the history of the Republic.

 

[PRD1]

"Molon Labe" -"Come and take (them)" has always been understood as a challenge of defiance: the first recorded use of it having been King Leonidas' reply to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans surrender their arms before the battle of Thermopylae. The Persians did just that. While the sentiment has often been used in the same spirit since, the original context should serve as a caution to be careful what you ask for...

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

 

[rabid wombat]

Got to love Texas!

https://www.myplates.com/design/personalized/passenger/come-and-take-it-flag/

https://www.myplates.com/design/personalized/passenger/dont-tread-on-me-flag/

While the sentiment has often been used in the same spirit since, the original context should serve as a caution to be careful what you ask for...

Dont tread on me...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag

 

[PRD1]

Got to love Texas!

I do. Born and raised there.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

 

[rabid wombat]

I do. Born and raised there.

I have fun with this. Dad and both brothers born and raised in Texas...I laugh, as I was born in Tennessee and raised in Texas

For those not familiar, Tennessee is known as the Volunteer State in part for the numbers of Tennesseans who served at the Alamo.

 

[Navy87Guy]

"Molon Labe" -"Come and take (them)" has always been understood as a challenge of defiance: the first recorded use of it having been King Leonidas' reply to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans surrender their arms before the battle of Thermopylae. The Persians did just that. While the sentiment has often been used in the same spirit since, the original context should serve as a caution to be careful what you ask for...

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

Just because the outcome isn’t favorable doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have to be done anyway. I’m pretty sure Leonidas and his warriors knew what happen when Xerxes attacked. The end result was the same...but the price that Xerxes paid was much higher.

 

[PRD1]

Just because the outcome isn’t favorable doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have to be done anyway. I’m pretty sure Leonidas and his warriors knew what happen when Xerxes attacked. The end result was the same...but the price that Xerxes paid was much higher.

All true. It still seems to be a good idea to remember what the cost is likely to be when you hurl down the gauntlet of defiance. Leonidas and his little band of Spartans won lasting glory - but they died doing so. Xerxes won that battle, but came to an ignominious end. Both are remembered. Only Leonidas and the Spartans are still honored.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

 

[Navy87Guy]

All true. It still seems to be a good idea to remember what the cost is likely to be when you hurl down the gauntlet of defiance. Leonidas and his little band of Spartans won lasting glory - but they died doing so. Xerxes won that battle, but came to an ignominious end. Both are remembered. Only Leonidas and the Spartans are still honored.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

Great point...a lot of people want to put on the bravado, but aren’t prepared for the consequences.

 

[rabid wombat]

but aren’t prepared for the consequences.

really gives meaning to “a hill to die on...”

 

[Dunross]

"Molon Labe" -"Come and take (them)" has always been understood as a challenge of defiance: the first recorded use of it having been King Leonidas' reply to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans surrender their arms before the battle of Thermopylae. The Persians did just that. While the sentiment has often been used in the same spirit since, the original context should serve as a caution to be careful what you ask for...

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

What you say is true. History is full of these situations. Unfortunately sometimes there simply is no good choice. Die on your feet or live on your knees? If and when the time ever comes we will all hopefully get to make that decision for ourselves. Choosing not to decide is still making a choice.

 

[CapnMac]

Also, the fate of Leonidas was also known when the expression was sewn onto a flag.
The canon went (generally) east to Sam Houston (as did the flag, allegedly).

After the Alamo Santa Ana drove Texian forces east as well. He had given orders that all those captured were to be treated as pirates and hung. A ragtag group of POW were herded into Goliad as Santa Ana pressed on to Buffalo Bayou. He left no uncertain orders to the Goliad garrison commander. Who marched the Texians out on a road between two lines of Mexican soldatos and had the prisoners shot. Survivors were bayoneted or clubbed. About six managed to escape death by different ruses and lived to tell the tale. The dead were piled up and the bodies burnt, and left to lie.

This story reached San Jacinto just before the Scrape, and the battlecry was not just "Remember the Alamo!" but also "Remember Goliad!"

tl;dr No step on snek

 

[herrwalther]

While the sentiment has often been used in the same spirit since, the original context should serve as a caution to be careful what you ask for...

While the Greek fighting force at Thermopylae was defeated, Xerxes losses were significant. Thermopylae happened just before winter in Greece, forcing Persia into a low scale war to rebuild their losses. But it also allowed Athenians, Spartans, and other Greeks to move more freely in their homeland while Persians were limited by weather. There are only 2 known major battles after Thermopylae between Persians and Greeks during this time period. The second at Mycale is considered the turning point of the invasion as Xerxes withdrew from Greece following the Siege of Sestos in 478.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Thermopylae was only a holding action meant to delay Xerxes and buy the Greek city states time. The real Greek victory was the naval battle at Salamis where the Persian fleet suffered a horrible defeat. Without the navy to defend the supply lines, Xexes withdrew most of his army. Those who remained behind were defeated later. Read Herodotus The Persian Wars (sometimes called The Histories depending on the publisher, it's called by both).

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

"O Passerby, go tell the Spartans that we lie here obedient to their laws. "
At Thermopylae it was the traitor Ephialtes who showed the Persians a goat track that allowed to get into the rear of the Greeks position.
Like the Alamo-and Goliad-Thermopylae was a tactical victory and a strategic and moral defeat. In both cases the defeated side realized the seriousness of the situation-and got very angry.

 

[GEM]

OK, off topic. Interesting but not for us.

Closed.