Reloadron
Contributing Member
I always enjoyed that link you use. The gentleman explains things well using most importantly first hand experienced information.
Ron
Commercial Loads for 7.62x51mm?
- Thread starter moonzapa
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Ron
W L Johnson
Member
A check of NATO spec docs show that NATO chambers are spec'd to 75,000 psi. I've linked to the NATO spec docs in the past but don't have the links at the moment.
But anyhow, people who write this stuff should explain to me how on earth, if 7.62NATO really was 50,000 psi, would it then produced the same ballistics with the same bullet as 308 if it really had 12,000 less psi behind it?
R.W.Dale
Member
Just look at hodgdons pressure data. They still list both cup and psi. Maximum loads expressed in CUP max out @ 50k (that number seems familiar) psi loads go north of 60k
All this confusion come from the fact that the military uses a copper crusher test bbl to determine pressure and instead of calling the resulting number CUP as they should they call it PSI because they're the government and they can be wrong.
Torian
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Plenty of ammo around for my m14. Getting it at a decent price is another matter entirely. I usually end up shooting PRVI / PPU 145 grain(ish) loads. If I buy in bulk, it's about 70 cents a round. Otherwise almost a buck a shot. Shot both 308 and 7.62 interchangeably without issue.
moonzapa
Member
I didn't expect such a hailstorm of comments regarding my post and the .308 Winchester cartridge.
I reviewed the Hodgdon Loading Website for the .308 Winchester cartridge which revealed not just a few, but many, many maximum 50K psi loads. So, the 50K psi equivalent to the 30-30 Winchester notion holds no water with me. (It was thought by some gunners years ago that the .44 magnum exceeded the power of the puny .30-30 Winchester, however, handloading manuals revealed the .30-30Win had more than twice the muzzle energy of the .44 mag).
A further note of contention I submit is that both Hornady and Sierra provide two separate handloading data for the .308 Winchester cartridge in standard rifles and service rifles. I categorize the Armalite AR-10 as a service rifle. I'm not going to feed my AR-10, a service rifle, with cartridges handloaded in the 70K psi - 75K psi pressures. It's a matter of safety and common sense.
My post has gone astray from the original intent of my thread...all I wanted was information regarding recommended commercial ammo in .308 win, or the use of military ammo in my AR-10. My apologies.
FYI...The last I checked, ammo is still sold in KENTUCK, so you won't need any of my ammo for your .308 brush beater.
Good Shooting!
I reviewed the Hodgdon Loading Website for the .308 Winchester cartridge which revealed not just a few, but many, many maximum 50K psi loads. So, the 50K psi equivalent to the 30-30 Winchester notion holds no water with me. (It was thought by some gunners years ago that the .44 magnum exceeded the power of the puny .30-30 Winchester, however, handloading manuals revealed the .30-30Win had more than twice the muzzle energy of the .44 mag).
A further note of contention I submit is that both Hornady and Sierra provide two separate handloading data for the .308 Winchester cartridge in standard rifles and service rifles. I categorize the Armalite AR-10 as a service rifle. I'm not going to feed my AR-10, a service rifle, with cartridges handloaded in the 70K psi - 75K psi pressures. It's a matter of safety and common sense.
My post has gone astray from the original intent of my thread...all I wanted was information regarding recommended commercial ammo in .308 win, or the use of military ammo in my AR-10. My apologies.
FYI...The last I checked, ammo is still sold in KENTUCK, so you won't need any of my ammo for your .308 brush beater.
Good Shooting!
allaroundhunter
Member
Common sense would actually tell you that a round that produces 50k psi Max pressure could not possibly be ballistically similar to one that produces 70-75k psi.... But oh well.
I also don't think this thread has veered off from its original intent in any way. Just because we are trying to prove to you that they are interchangeable (seemingly against your wishes), doesn't mean that we are straying off topic.
I also don't think this thread has veered off from its original intent in any way. Just because we are trying to prove to you that they are interchangeable (seemingly against your wishes), doesn't mean that we are straying off topic.
I wonder if it is even possible to load a 7.62x51/.308 Win to those type of pressures....I certainly know there are no loading manuals that show loads for that type of pressure. The Ultra Magnums even max out well below 70K PSI
moonzapa
Member
This is my final take on the 7.62x51mm NATO chambering as opposed to the .308 Winchester. The NATO, or 7.62x51mm chamber is intended for "omni" battlefield conditions, where dirt, grime, and the lack of normal periodic cleaning can and often occurs. In my humble opinion, this does not give me full license to feed my service rifle with hot deer hunting .308 Winchester loads. I'm sure the Armalite AR-10 could handle full throttle loads, but to what end and how long can I expect a gas operated rifle to last before I'm replacing parts? If some of you "cowboys" want to load em hot, then go for it. Last time I checked it is a free country, except for paying taxes.
R.W.Dale
Member
Are you absolutely SURE OF THAT
I see NO 50k psi loads shown in the sample below. But I see several 50k CUP ones (excluding low recoil youth loads)
You're making the same mistake people make that started the whole 308 is different than 7.62x51 mythology. You're merely glancing across the data, missing the small but extremely important details and perpetuating the lie.
Take the varget loading a for the two bullets shown.
It's quite evident of the difference in the two measuring systems
Lastly you cannot go by what your lower " suggests" for caliber. Your BARREL should be stamped with its exact chambering usually on bottom between the FSB and the forearm
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R.W.Dale
Member
http://www.saami.org/specifications...1-Unsafe_Arms_and_Ammunition_Combinations.pdf
This PDF lists all the potentially unsafe gun ammunition mismatches out there from the folks whose job it is to govern such things. NOT listed amongst these is anything pertaining to 7.62 x51 in a 308
This PDF lists all the potentially unsafe gun ammunition mismatches out there from the folks whose job it is to govern such things. NOT listed amongst these is anything pertaining to 7.62 x51 in a 308
rodregier
Member
Assuming you have wrapped up the pressure rating of the two cartridges...
Just keep in mind you are unlikely to maximize the accuracy potential of your rifle with FMJ projectile ammunition. Lots of wonderful "match grade" loadings available in .308 Win. A few of them might even be available for exorbitant pricing during the current ammunition "famine" Look at the various 168g HPBTM loadings.
Just keep in mind you are unlikely to maximize the accuracy potential of your rifle with FMJ projectile ammunition. Lots of wonderful "match grade" loadings available in .308 Win. A few of them might even be available for exorbitant pricing during the current ammunition "famine"
Look at the various 168g HPBTM loadings.Magnuumpwr
Member
Gold Metal Match 168 gr BTHP are the main ammo for my LR308, 700 SPS's, Weatherby, and Steyr. The only guns using ball ammo are my Cetme and the 1919A4.
As to the topic, would I be correct in saying that throat erosion would not be a problem using hunting 308 ammo in a 7.62X51 chambered rifle?
Checked my chamber markings and all are 308 with the exception of the Cetme and the 1919A4.
As to the topic, would I be correct in saying that throat erosion would not be a problem using hunting 308 ammo in a 7.62X51 chambered rifle?
Checked my chamber markings and all are 308 with the exception of the Cetme and the 1919A4.
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.308
better get a ar with a wild chamber like rockriver so it will safley eat both with out blowing up.http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070826234121AAjbZSN
better get a ar with a wild chamber like rockriver so it will safley eat both with out blowing up.http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070826234121AAjbZSN
That would be Wylde...and that is for .223/5.56 This thread is about 7.62/.308
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
In fifteen years of TFL/THR, I don't recall any post about a problem from any purported pressure differential between .308 commercial and 7.62 military.
Willie Sutton
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^^ Precisely, Art. That's because there isn't any difference.
Theory is only valid insofar as it mirrors reality.
The reality is that these cartridges are identical.
Got a laugh about the "my lower is stamped "x.xx"... Uhh.... :banghead:
I'm sure the Armalite AR-10 could handle full throttle loads, but to what end and how long can I expect a gas operated rifle to last before I'm replacing parts?
To what end? None, unless that's all the ammo you happen to have on any given day. But for how long? Forever. Your rifle vents any excess gas as soon as the bolt carrier moves back a fraction of an inch, and that tends to self-limit things. The key is that it's not *required* to cycle your rifle, so why bother? But it's not gonna hurt a thing. These rifles are not made of sugar candy, and are not working even close to their material strength limitations. Not...even...close.
Back to the beginning:
Because of the higher pressures, no retail/commercial .308 Winchester ammo...Am I right or wrong?
One word answer: Wrong. You can buy any box of over the counter ammunition loaded by any commercial manufacturer and shoot your AR-10 to your hearts content for the rest of your life, and your heirs and their heirs will be able to do the same ad-nauseum until the earth is consumed by the ever-expanding sun, thus ending the days of shooting.
Willie
.
Theory is only valid insofar as it mirrors reality.
The reality is that these cartridges are identical.
Got a laugh about the "my lower is stamped "x.xx"... Uhh.... :banghead:
I'm sure the Armalite AR-10 could handle full throttle loads, but to what end and how long can I expect a gas operated rifle to last before I'm replacing parts?
To what end? None, unless that's all the ammo you happen to have on any given day. But for how long? Forever. Your rifle vents any excess gas as soon as the bolt carrier moves back a fraction of an inch, and that tends to self-limit things. The key is that it's not *required* to cycle your rifle, so why bother? But it's not gonna hurt a thing. These rifles are not made of sugar candy, and are not working even close to their material strength limitations. Not...even...close.
Back to the beginning:
Because of the higher pressures, no retail/commercial .308 Winchester ammo...Am I right or wrong?
One word answer: Wrong. You can buy any box of over the counter ammunition loaded by any commercial manufacturer and shoot your AR-10 to your hearts content for the rest of your life, and your heirs and their heirs will be able to do the same ad-nauseum until the earth is consumed by the ever-expanding sun, thus ending the days of shooting.
Willie
.
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hardluk1
member
Got go the company your planning on buying a ar-10 based rifle from and see if it does not say 308/7.62x51 or simply 308 in the info on the rifle OR on the barrel. I can't find one that does not cover 308winchester.
Even the current M110 sniper rifle that knight aramament is labeled as 308 in the commercial market. Even the current M1A will run fine on 308
Stop all the whine'n about abiout 7.62 and 308 as it does not matter in the semi-auto rifles made today. Even a buddies new m14 if fine with the run of the mill 308 anmmo.
Even the current M110 sniper rifle that knight aramament is labeled as 308 in the commercial market. Even the current M1A will run fine on 308
Stop all the whine'n about abiout 7.62 and 308 as it does not matter in the semi-auto rifles made today. Even a buddies new m14 if fine with the run of the mill 308 anmmo.
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