Compression????

[beng]

Have a hypothetical question. Say, if your bullet is to be seated down .500 and you compress you load down to that mark, if you use a veg. wad (.060) now you compress your bullet down to .560 would this be better than just a compression load of .500? beng

 

[Don McDowell]

Just set the wad on top of the powder before compressing and then mash the whole mess down in the case until the bullet seats to the depth you want with the base of the bullet sitting solidly on the wad.
Don't fidget about the specific compression number, it's absolutely meaningless.

 

[Pancho]

I agree completely with Don, muzzleloading is not an exact science it is a recollection of the way things used to be before there were micrometers and electronic scales. Even with the modern inlines there is no one that dictates the load you choose or the compression you use with your ram and there are too many variables to suggest.

 

[[email protected]]

I hate being as old as I am, but sometimes it has advantages. Like I remember
years ago they ran test on compression of loads and how it affected accuracy,
This was written up in "Muzzle Blast" I even made myself a device that would
Measure the pressure of the ball on the powder. Every load had the same pressure. This was one of the key factors of accuracy in black powder rifles.
How soon we forget. Test were ran shooting revolvers from a Ranson machine
rest at 50 yds and changing compression pressure on the loading lever. All this
was printed in "Muzzle Blast". It was found the one thing that effected accuracy
The most was , you guessed it, compression of the bullet on the powder. How
soon we forget. I have all the articles and it is fun to go back and read what
was done say 40 years ago. I know this will go against the arm chair experts
on here but so be it. Facts are facts. Save your flames .

 

[Oyvind]

I completely agree with [email protected]

Compression is an important factor for good accuracy with black powder – any top notch shooter can attest to that. Only found through experimenting with your gun and bullet, powder, wad, primer etc combination, the correct amount of compression will most often give you a cleaner burning charge and better accuracy compared to non-compressed charges.

There are several ways to compress black powder charges. While the powder in a cartridge case can be compressed mechanically with a compression plug fitted into an expanding die body, muzzle-loaders may benefit from pouring the powder slowly down the muzzle and, like [email protected] mentioned, by applying consistent pressure with the ramrod.

Black powder measures often come with a long drop-tube through which the powder is poured into the case. When loading BPCR ammunition I use this drop tube first and the compress the powder mechanically.

Another way of compression black powder cartridge or pistol charges is using the vibration from an electric shaver or similar. This settles the powder granules the same way as a drop tube will.

 

[Don McDowell]

The very last thing you want to do is damage the bullet by having it have to compress the powder if you're after any sort of accuracy from a cartridge gun or a frontstuffer for that matter.

 

[faustopph]

Anyone that does not think compression makes a difference in black powder knows little of black powder.
Here is a test for you. Pour 30grs. of black powder on a slab of concrete and light a flame to it. It will not go bang.
Compress 30grs. with say 20 pounds of compression and light a flame to it. Oh,make sure you are at a safe distance or at least behind a safe barrier before lighting.

 

[Don McDowell]

I think there is some confusion going on here.
No one here has said compression doesn't matter.

 

[mykeal]

Wellll...somebody did say the specific number was meaningless.....which can pretty easily be inferred to mean the amount of compression doesn't matter....so there was certainly some confusion.

 

[boommer]

compression is a thing that you really need to (FIDGET)with!! in a case and it it is not meaningless anybody knows this that has any know how, how to load BPRC. Playing with the burn rate is how to tune your load by burn rate is just one way to tune your loads. How you stack your and powder settle your powder all so is very important in your case. I drop mine down a tube 24" out the powder measure two taps on measure then dump into case then two light taps on the bench to settle more and this gives me very consistent volume and my compression crush of the powder consistent.

 

[Don McDowell]

Yes specific numbers are meaningless.
First off for the number to be meaningful, the charge weight and oal of the loaded round need to be known. Then in cartridge loading for a compression number to mean anything it needs to be specified compressed from what? the mouth of the case or the top of the powder from where it stopped when you poured it in the case.
What brand of case, Remington, Winchester and Starline brass all have slightly different capacity and case wall thickness. That changes how much compression a given charge needs to get the bullet and wads seated to the proper depth to chamber and or shoot well in the gun.
The amount of compression needed vary's when you change charge weights,powder brands or F size, or bullet length , or seating depth of the bullet.
There are a good number of folks shooting on the championship level that quit using the drop tube, opting to pour the powder in the case and then compress and seat the bullet.
Most folks that load with just compression and then load a like amount of rounds drop tubed, put thru other gyrations and then finally compressed, can't tell which round was which on the target, when fired in a blind test.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

So how does all of this scientific formulea fit into shooting a muzzle loading flintlock at 100 yd tin cans? I guess most of the participants on this forum are making swiss watches......

 

[Pancho]

I would suggest that the majority of muzzloaders are not competition grade shooters and that would leave that majority with a stick and their arm or, in the case of a revolver, the loading lever and their hand. In each case the amount of compression is regulated by feel not numbers.
I would further suggest that accuracy, being dependent on compression and consistency, would require an amazing amount of FEEL.

 

[BigG]

Consistency -

A gauge is a way of measuring consistency. I use consistent methods to load my muzzle loaders but not gauges. For accuracy I can understand loading by a gauge might make it more consistent and therefore more accurate but my shooting is mostly for pleasure so I don't get into all the extra paraphernalia. Heck, I need a bag full of stuff to muzzle load anyway so it's enough.