Concealed Carry and the spare Magazine

Status
Not open for further replies.
Feanaro,

Well, I guess why not carry two spares? Four? Why not carry a spare fuel can in the car? How about four spare tires? Your logic, while sound, works both ways. At some point you draw the line. We all choose based on what we feel is reasonable. We make our decisions (whatever they may be) and move on. Some of us are comfortable with less (or more) than others. I've usually got no more than 6-7 rounds on me. On some days I have 10 (or 13), but usually not.

My opinion, based on my experience and the experience of my LEO father (and grandfather) is that if you live to see the bottom of your magazine you're very, very fortunate. Surviving an engagement where you fire 6-8 (directed) rounds (or more) is far more telling of your luck than skill. That many rounds insinuates either a very, very determined attacker or multiple opponents. In the former case, you'd best be ready with a head shot. You won't get the opportunity to fire more than one or two (if that) directed rounds at such a small target before it closes (or shoots you). The only alternative is to fire blindly at the head; we all know how well that works out. Now, people live through these situations all the time, but then people also win the lottery. Personally, I don't count on that kind of luck being there for me.

Engaging multiple armed opponents outside an IDPA match results in death. The probability of surviving such an encounter long enough to need a reload is infintesimal. A blindingly fast grandmaster level IPSC shooter could, in full gaming gear, do an El Presidente in 4.75 seconds. Factor in a street holster and stress. How fast can you turn around and neutralize three opponents. Even at the grandmaster level, you'd be shot before you can hit the third one.

Mixing the two scenarios results in your chances for survival approaching zero. I agree it's best to be prepared, but we all have to make a reasoned decision how far to go. Of course, I'm one of the guys who doesn't own a black rifle and doesn't have a rehearsed SHTF plan. I guess you could rightly call me unprepared for the most extreme scenarios. I run a mile daily, My concealment holster to shot on target times stay below the one second mark (I can only hope I don't get into a showdown with a GM shooter...), I keep my head on my shoulders and I practice various forms of hand-to-hand somewhat reguarly. My speedloading times aren't bad, either. ;) I will, however, be the first to admit that if mutant zombie spiders attacked earth tomorrow, I reckon I'd probably be right with the rest of the world thinkg "***?!" as opposed to the prepared few heading out with their BOBs to do battle with said invaders. ;)
 
355sigfan,

Quote
"Er, actually my first solution would be to drop it and pull my Centennial...
"END Quote

I agree in the case of a double feed its faster to draw a bug.
Pat

It may be untactical to say so, but if I hear any noise other than a *BANG!* when I pull the trigger on my CCW gun, I'm not going to stand around and try and diagnose the malf in the middle of a gunfight. I don't care it it's a dud primer, empty magazine, failure to feed, failure to eject, double feed, or whatever; I'm not even going to look at the gun, I'm going to drop it on the deck and draw my backup.

Others may train differently, but that is my plan...
 
pwrtool45,

Personally? I'd ditch the spare mag before I ditched the second gun.

I figure my odds of needing 16+ rounds are far less than the odds of my primary deciding that the middle of a gunfight is a splendid time to go Tango Uniform. :uhoh:
 
I carry my Glock 27 and a 5" folding knife. No spare mag.

Come on guys. It is a million to one you will need your gun. It is a billion to one you will need your gun and more ammo than what is in it to start.

After a certain point it starts to get ridiculous. Take a deep breath and think about it. You don't need a gun, a backup, and a backup for your backup with 150 rounds in magazines.

Here is a question, can you grapple? Can you box? How is your knife fighting skills? Can you run 5 miles without dropping? When was the last time you did a push up?

Some preparation can't be purchased and owned. It has to be earned. But, that would be too hard for most of the guys I see at the range and gunshows. Their gun is their lucky charm.
 
dave3006,

It is a million to one you will need your gun. It is a billion to one you will need your gun and more ammo than what is in it to start.

...and it's a dead-nuts certainty that, given my luck, my CCW weapon will choose to have its first malfunction in years right after I've pulled it on Joe Badguy.

Sorry, but I have no desire to be explaining "Just kiddin', Mister Goblin! I really wasn't meanin' to shoot at you!" to some clown while trying to clear a stovepipe. Since the 442 in my pocket weighs less than the amount of small change most folks go jangling about with, I'll continue to keep my coins in a jar at home and the .38 in the Uncle Mike's pocket holster.

You do as you see fit, I'll continue with my case of clinical paranoia.




(PS: If it's a "million to one" I'll ever need my gun, I oughtta run out and buy lotto tickets now, as I've already needed it three more times than I ever will... :uhoh: )
 
Yeah, carry 4-5 or five guns in case the one you have breaks a firing pin when you are trying to double tap the bad guy. As long as you admit it is "paranioa" and not based on a healthy rational assessment of reality. If you gun does act up in the MIDDLE of a fight, it is unlikely that you will be able to call a time out and grab the spare gun.

For the rationally challenged, I suggest they carry:

a gun, a backup gun, a backup backup gun, and a backup backup backup gun.
83 spare magazines
spare firing pin, extractor, sights, and trigger mechanism
shooting gloves
electronic hearing protection
Glasses - clear and yellow lenses
Rifle, shotgun in car.
Spare rifle, shotgun in car.
MREs
Guns and Ammo magazine.

You need these things in case Mr. Murphy shows up to your next gunfight.

Get a grip.
 
What ever happened to civility? I humbly request the moderators start cleaning house around here, it's getting to be a little hard to take.

- Gabe
 
I don't carry a spare. I have 7 shots and if that is not enough, I will be setting new records for the 100 meter dash!
 
dave3006

Here is a question, can you grapple? Can you box? How is your knife fighting skills? Can you run 5 miles without dropping? When was the last time you did a push up?

While the questions are not really on topic it is about being prepared so as one who caries a spare mag and some times a spare BUG I will be more than happy to answer your questions.

I grapple, Jujitsu, I box, Tang Su Do...and I hit and get hit hard with very hard and realistic training three times a week. (No I don't do multiple arts, just a multi-disciplined art: Kajukembo.) I have had formal knife training and I practice. I ran 5 miles Friday, but just 3 on Monday and Wednesday. I did push ups in class Thursday, and I did them with my weight training program Wednesday.

Let us take the preparedness question one step farther.

Have you had any formal training with a gun. I don't mean your concealed carry training? I mean something like Thunder Ranch, LFI or any other reputable training Sig Academy ect. Just for my own curiosity if you have had formal training do you carry a spare mag?

Thanks for your thoughts and responses.

Charles
 
What ever happened to civility? I humbly request the moderators start cleaning house around here, it's getting to be a little hard to take.

Good question, Gabe.

I'm pretty much over this myself.

If I wanted this level of discussion, I'd go hang out at a CounterStrike site.

I'm outta this one.
 
:rolleyes:
Those who say carrying a spare mag or BUG is paranoia, or over preparedness, isn't carrying a gun in the first place just a matter of preparedness?

Civility? that's gone out the window as soon as people can hide semi-anonmosly (sp) behind a keyboard. I've been guilty of it myself before.

I was just looking for advice on carrying that spare mag, that I will carry, and maybe some mag-holster recommendations. This thread is getting out of hand.
:banghead:
 
I apologize if I have offended anyone. I do not have any animosity toward any of the posters and I am certainly not educated or experienced enough to think that my way is the best. I just answered questions posed in the thread.

If I gave any other impression I apologize. I enjoy the board immensely, the information on the board is great and I have learned a lot from the board.

Thanks,

Charles
 
Those who say carrying a spare mag or BUG is paranoia, or over preparedness, isn't carrying a gun in the first place just a matter of preparedness?

I don't feel that this is paranoia at all. Rather it's a matter of personal choice, and maybe, regional location.
Each individual, if they've carried for any time at all, knows what's best for them, and shouldn't be criticized for that choice.
 
To debate about something like this is evidence that we just that we have too much time on our hands?


I carry a back up mag because it is a small relatively light object that has the potential of being an invaluable asset under certain circumstances.
If it becomes too much of an inconvenience then I would leave it at home. Simply a cost benefit choice.


Someone may feel completely comfortable without a spare mag; another feels perfectly comfortable with a spare.
Everything else is bollocks!


85% of the time I throw a spare mag in my pocket and forget about it.

The ongoing debate is like :banghead:
 
And take a deeeeeeeep breath in.

And let it ooooooooout.

And take a deeeeeeeep breath in.

And let it ooooooooout.


Now, don't we all feel better. :D

Nobody has to be right. Nobody has to be wrong. This isn't a black-n-white issue, and there are so many factors to be taken into account (shorts and T-shirt, only weigh as much as 1.5 Skunkabillys ;), etc) that hard-nosed arguining the point is a tad too much. When there are rational arguments for both sides, the issue is in the safe harbor of "personal preference."

No biggie. Tell ya what. I'll even carry a spare mag today just for you guys. ;)
 
Charles, I don't think you've said anything that could even remotely be construed as offensive or rude.

- Gabe
 
It may be untactical to say so, but if I hear any noise other than a *BANG!* when I pull the trigger on my CCW gun, I'm not going to stand around and try and diagnose the malf in the middle of a gunfight.
END Quote

Well about 6 months ago I went to a Glock instructors course and they showed a new way of doing malfunctions that does not require diagnosing the malfunction. It works fairly well. If the gun does not fire. Don't look feel nothing simply do a tap rack access/bang drill. If the gun does not fire after this you could go to your original plan of drawing a bug. Or if you only have one gun perform phase two of the malfunction clearance. rip the magazine out, rack the slide 3 times, insert new magazine or old mag if its all you have and rack the slide again. This takes thinking and diagnosing out of the equation. 99% of the malfunctions I have seen are cleared by the very fast tap rack access/bang drill. Its faster than drawing a second gun for most people. If you have a bug however and the tap rack access/bang drill does not work drawing the bug at this point is faster than going to phase 2. If you practice this enough it will be done without thinking.
Pat
 
Pat,

That is the same solution taught by a lot of the top shooting courses. One can become quite fast at fixing the problem with practice. I would do the primary failure to fire drill primary to drawing a BUG because I am faster at that. If I had a BUG I would go to that before I tried the second solution. In all honesty I hope to never ever use the gun for a social situation and I hope to never find out. In other words you and I feel the same.

I have noticed that you and I agree on a lot of points.

Pat, I think you used, may still, post on Shooter Talk in the past. I think we used to post on the same board. I stopped using the board much after I found TFL. If your the person I am thinking of you are a Police officer and I think you are in Alaska?

Kind of Interesting.

Charles
 
Yep I have not been to shooters talk in a while. I do work in Bethel Alaska as a police officer. I am currently assigned to a state wide drug and alcohol taskforce ran by the Alaska State Troopers. I seldom carry a bug anymore because of the plain clothes assingment. When I worked patrol I carried a mini glock on my ankle.
Pat
 
I think Gabe needs to be less sensitive. It's only a post. It can't hurt you. Geesh.

Charles, you are rare. I do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and have done Karate for 10 years. I have been to Frontsight, TFTT, and FTA. For the most part, I think a monthly game of paintball prepares a person for fighting better than the "shoot at paper targets" schools.

You need a little sarcasm to make a point sometimes. Think about it, some guys are a little overboard. Unless you live in Beruit, I think a gun, a backup gun, and four spare mags is a little overboard. It is still my position that some of the people who advocate this hyper preparedness are some of the most to be unprepared in other obvious areas.

If you can't take a strong opinion on a silly board, how will you fight Mr. Bad guy when he comes to get you?
 
For the most part, I think a monthly game of paintball prepares a person for fighting better than the "shoot at paper targets" schools.

I would tend to disagree with this. I was pretty big into paintball and most all the people who would do poorly were the ex mil type. A few mil guys were into paintball, and yeah they were good, but by in large, I dont think playing paintball prepares for fighting.

My opinion of course...

Some of the reasons why... Well, first well most of us dont have guns that shoot 10 rounds a second without considering recoil. Suppresion fire is a valid tactic in paintball but I dont know about suppresion fire with a 1911. Second, I wouldnt hide behind paintball barricades if it were the real thing. ;)
 
dave3006,

Good points. BTW Sarcasm has never offended me. I think it can make a debate more colorful and a lot less dry.

Most of us carry in the hopes we never will need our carry gun, and try train for an event we hope will never happen.

Dave, you sound pretty rare also. I am very disappointed in the number of people I know locally that carry, but have never had any formal training. I still have a lot to learn and enjoy the exchange of ideas with others who do train and learn.

As I get older, I find myself gravitating more toward comfortable carry guns. I even, gasp, carry a SP101 pretty regularly. That is pretty darn untactical.

BTW. I try to live the rest of my life in just as prepared a fashion. My hiking day pack can support my being lost for days. The back of my truck contains jumper cables, air compressor, extra gas, extra clothing ext.

I don't like being unable to care for myself.

Charles
 
I'm one of the guys who doesn't own a black rifle and doesn't have a rehearsed SHTF plan. I guess you could rightly call me unprepared for the most extreme scenarios. I run a mile daily, My concealment holster to shot on target times stay below the one second mark (I can only hope I don't get into a showdown with a GM shooter...), I keep my head on my shoulders and I practice various forms of hand-to-hand somewhat reguarly. My speedloading times aren't bad, either. I will, however, be the first to admit that if mutant zombie spiders attacked earth tomorrow, I reckon I'd probably be right with the rest of the world thinkg "***?!" as opposed to the prepared few heading out with their BOBs to do battle with said invaders.

At least I know that I'm not alone. I really don't care about SHTF scenarios, or BOBs or any of the paranoid pzchizophrenic inventions that arise daily on these boards.

To get back on the topic of this thread:

Who carries a spare mag for thier ccw weapon and how do you carry it?
I carry a double mag pouch, single stack, at 8. We should carry some kind of reload for the very same reason we have a CCW: someday we MAY need it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top