Concealed Carry in King County Parks (WA State)

[357WheelGun]

Now, I'm not looking to be the person to test this, but I have a question about King County Ordinance 7.12.630, which states:

7.12.630 Firearms, weapons. No person except duly authorized law enforcement personnel shall possess a bow and arrow, crossbow, or air or gas weapon in a county park. No person shall discharge across, in, or into any King County park area a firearm, bow and arrow, crossbow, air or gas weapon, or any device capable of injuring or killing any person or animal, or damaging or destroying any public or private property.
Provided that:
Where the department for good cause has authorized in writing a special recreational activity upon finding that it is not inconsistent with King County park use this section shall not apply. (Ord. 12003 § 17, 1995*: Ord. 8166 § 8, 1987: Ord. 6798 § 63, 1984).

Now, the RCW fully and completely preempts local ordinances with RCW 9.41.290, which states:

RCW 9.41.290
State preemption.

The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

KC 7.12.630 does not comply with RCW 9.41.300 which contains the following:

(2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

(a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others; and

(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

(ii) Any showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.

Based on this, it seems as though KC 7.12.630 is unenforceable per RCW 9.41.290 and RCW 9.41.300 provided that the defendant has a valid CPL. Does this square with the way others are reading this?

Like I said, I don't really want to be the person to test this, but on the other hand I really don't want to be in the middle of Cougar Mountain and have to fend off a bear with a pointy stick if something highly unlikely happens.

Also, does anyone else note that technically KC 7.12.630 bans bringing string (it's capable of strangling someone), plastic picnic bags (capable of suffocating someone), or even your own body (technically capable of "injuring or killing any person or animal, or damaging or destroying any public or private property"), hell a Bic pen or a Sharpie marker is technically prohibited under that ordinance. Talk about your poorly-written legislation.

So, am I completely wrong or is it essentially impossible for King County to enforce the legislation per state law?

 

[t3rmin]

The state preemption is pretty clear. Folks at opencarry.org have gotten some conflicting local laws overturned before.

The problem is (as in other places) King County may already know their law is bunk. But they won't do anything about it until embarrassed sufficiently or forced.

It won't cost you much to write a few letters, though. Might be worth a try.

 

[Mainsail]

I've written a letter to Pierce County about the signs in their parks and they promised to remove the word ‘firearms’ from the list of prohibited items on their signs. I know someone who is working on Kitsap County and others that are working on King County. We all carry openly and ignore the signs; your concealed carry is going to be problem free.

You can grumble about a problem or do something to fix it.

 

[RaspberrySurprise]

From the look of the law your pointy stick would be illegal as well since it is "any device capable of injuring or killing any person or animal, or damaging or destroying any public or private property" which would be quite a long list of items.

 

[SAG0282]

I sent a couple of emails to people at Pierce Co. only because their flagrant violation of the law angered me....never got anywhere. Like others said though, they don't have the authority.

 

[mrdave]

It's all changed now.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Wow, talk about necromancing an old thread!

It's all changed now.

Respectfully, what has all changed now?

http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/l...cil/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/10_Title_7.ashx

7.12.630 Firearms, weapons. No person except duly authorized law enforcement personnel shall possess a bow and arrow, crossbow, or air or gas weapon in a county park. No person shall discharge across, in, or into any King County park area a firearm, bow and arrow, crossbow, air or gas weapon, or any device capable of injuring or killing any person or animal, or damaging or destroying any public or private property.
Provided that:
Where the department for good cause has authorized in writing a special recreational activity upon finding that it is not inconsistent with King County park use this section shall not apply. (Ord. 12003 § 17, 1995*: Ord. 8166 § 8, 1987: Ord. 6798 § 63, 1984).

BTW, the King County ordinance is in complete complaince with the Washington State preemption statutes RCW 9.41.290 and 9.41.300 which have not changed in the 2.2 years since this thread was originally posted.

 

[tkopp]

MrDave is probably thinking of the doomed Seattle Parks law, which was quickly overturned on challenge. This is the first I heard of the county park law.

 

[suemarkp]

I don't see the problem. The state preempts firearms. The county is restricting possession of every other kind of weapon -- bows, air guns, just about anything but a firearm. You can carry a firearm into a county park. But you can't shoot it. And restricting the shooting of it is within the domain of what counties can regulate.

As much as I dislike that, what is worse are the No Shooting zones in King County. They tend to be around lakes, but not always. I had a half acre where I could shoot. Moved south about 1/4 mile to 2.5 acres and can't shoot. Now I'm east about 1/2 mile and am right on the border of the no shooting zone so I'm OK. Bullets still can't leave your property though.

The county lists these by street and description (there's at least 50 of them -- see King County law 12.68), but you have to figure the boundaries of each one to see if you're in one. They used to have to post the perimeter with signs which is how I first discovered them. But not anymore.

 

[blacktailhunter]

Snohomish co has the same laws but john coster on the co counsel tride to chang it with no luck it was on king 5 news the laws canot be upheld do to we are a open carry state I would like to see them arest someone and get sued for it

 

[NavyLCDR]

Snohomish co has the same laws but john coster on the co counsel tride to chang it with no luck it was on king 5 news the laws canot be upheld do to we are a open carry state I would like to see them arest someone and get sued for it

Not even Google could translate that to English!

Snohomish County Council repealed their illegal gun ban on April 21, 2010. John Koster was the councilman who proposed that the county council obey the state law.

Snohomish County Council members bickered over a proposed gun ban similar to, but not the same as, the one Seattle tried to enact.

"If I go to the park with my grandchildren and there are folks sitting on a park bench with a shotgun in their hand, I'm going to feel intimidated, whether or not they do nothing," said council chair Dave Gossett.

"Well, thank God, we don't make laws entirely on how you feel Mr. Gossett," said council member John Koster.

The council voted to bring its ordinance in line with state law, allowing people to carry guns in parks. But council members also voted to push the state to allow individual counties to put their own restrictions into place.