WA State concealed carry on college campus

[R.Greene]

I have looked over the RCW 9.41 Revised Code of Washington's section on firearms for prohibitions of CCW on a college campus, it seems there are none. WA has state preemption so i think county or city laws are not an issue.

Am I correct to assume that carrying concealed on a college campus in this state, with a valid CPL, would not be a violation of the law but only potentially breaking school rules?

 

[Quiet]

AFAIK...

You are correct.

There are no WA laws that prohibits a valid carry permit holder from carrying on college/university property.

However, if you get caught doing so, it could be grounds for expulsion/termination from the college/university.

Check the Washington Administrative Code (WAC) to see what each individual WA college/university policies/regulations are in regards to possessing a firearm on property.

 

[suemarkp]

Exactly. Sucks as a student, but not as a visitor.

My kids go to UW and at orientation the security guy was proud to explain that guns are not permitted on campus. He mentioned nothing about all the non-students that can carry, and of course the criminals who don't bother to get a permit.

 

[Buck13]

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=478-124-020

(2) In order to assure those rights to all members of the university community and to maintain a peaceful atmosphere in which the university may continue to make its special contribution to society, the following types of conduct are hereby prohibited on or in property either owned, controlled or operated by the university which is used or set aside for university purposes, hereinafter referred to as the university campus:

(e) Possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on the university campus, except for authorized university purposes, unless prior written approval has been obtained from the university chief of police, or any other person designated by the president of the university;

The above prohibits possession of a firearm on the University of Washington. Does a CPL negate this???

 

[Quiet]

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.a...te=478-124-020

(2) In order to assure those rights to all members of the university community and to maintain a peaceful atmosphere in which the university may continue to make its special contribution to society, the following types of conduct are hereby prohibited on or in property either owned, controlled or operated by the university which is used or set aside for university purposes, hereinafter referred to as the university campus:

(e) Possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on the university campus, except for authorized university purposes, unless prior written approval has been obtained from the university chief of police, or any other person designated by the president of the university;

The above prohibits possession of a firearm on the University of Washington. Does a CPL negate this???

With just a valid carry permit...
It would be legal, but if you are discovered doing so:
1. If you are a student, you can be expelled from the university.
2. If you are an employee of the university, your employment can be terminated.
3. If you are visiting, you will be asked to leave the property and failure to do so, can result in an arrest for trespassing.

With a valid carry permit and written permission of the university police chief:
It would be legal and it complies with university policy, which means you can not be punished for doing so.

 

[Buck13]

With a valid carry permit and written permission of the university police chief:
It would be legal and it complies with university policy, which means you can not be punished for doing so.

Thanks. I wonder if ANYONE has permission who is not LEO, Secret Service, etc. I would be stunned. I've never noticed if armored car drivers on campus have pistols.

 

[Welding Rod]

I fail to see how WA state colleges can ban guns as an administrative act as it seems to violate the state preemption statute as it has an unelected board of directors of a college essentially writing law (WACs) with authoritative parity of that done by the state legislature (RCWs) and the state legislative process. And in any case it definitely violates the state constitution.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I think the way they get around this is it isn't really law like a city or county ordinance. Those have the power of arrest, fine or imprisonment, a college policy doesn't have that authority. All it can do is expel the student. A library can't arrest you for unreturned books but they can make sure you no longer have a card. I don't agree with it and wouldn't pay a college for a degree. They can make it without my contributions.

 

[Bobson]

I don't agree with it and wouldn't pay a college for a degree. They can make it without my contributions.

Fascinating perspective.

 

[Red Wind]

CoalTrain is on the right track!

 

[Welding Rod]

I think the way they get around this is it isn't really law like a city or county ordinance. Those have the power of arrest, fine or imprisonment, a college policy doesn't have that authority. All it can do is expel the student. A library can't arrest you for unreturned books but they can make sure you no longer have a card. I don't agree with it and wouldn't pay a college for a degree. They can make it without my contributions.

Perhaps, but under that rationale, what would be the limit of their authority? Could the college board could also prohibit free speech or evidence of religion? Could they require submission to random searches of people and their vehicles? If not, why not?

Do you know if this has been tested in court?

 

[yugorpk]

This ban on carrying on Washington state college campus's has been in place for decades. Its very unlikely that it will change. Not a law but it's still a rule on campus that they can ( and have ) expel a student for violating. I have a son who will be in the UW system in a few years. He will not be carrying. If I visit him on campus I will probably be carrying . If I am noticed I will be told to leave and I will leave. Easy as that.

 

[Welding Rod]

My understanding is that there is no ban state wide, but rather it is done on an individual campus basis by that particular college's board as a WAC.

 

[yugorpk]

My understanding is that there is no ban state wide, but rather it is done on an individual campus basis by that particular college's board as a WAC.

Subsection (2)(e) of Washington Administrative Code 478-124-020 (part of the UW general conduct code) prohibits:

(e) Possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on the university campus, except for authorized university purposes, unless prior written approval has been obtained from the university chief of police, or any other person designated by the president of the university;


That for the statewide system. My understanding is that some of the campus's will allow waivers for permit holders though. Some will not.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Perhaps, but under that rationale, what would be the limit of their authority? Could the college board could also prohibit free speech or evidence of religion? Could they require submission to random searches of people and their vehicles? If not, why not?

Do you know if this has been tested in court?

Consult the WAC regarding universities. Here's one that looks like they could prohibit free speech under certain circumstances.

WAC 504-26-203

Disruption or obstruction.

Students have the right to freedom of speech, including the right to dissent or protest, but this expression may not interfere with the rights of others or disrupt the university's activities. Prohibited behavior includes: Disruption or obstruction of teaching, research, administration, disciplinary proceedings, other university activities, including its public service functions on or off campus, or of other authorized nonuniversity activities when the conduct occurs on university premises or is directed toward community members by any means including use of telephone, computer, or some other medium.

It looks like in order to be a student you may have to give up lots of your rights.

Lots to think about here. State funded, the state gets to make the rules. Regarding 2A I think the courts will yield to the state code.

 

[Steve C]

When I was a student at WSU in the 70's we where not allowed to keep our firearms in our living quarters be they a dormatory or University owned apartment buildings. Guns where checked in and stored at the University police station in a secured armory. They could be picked up or dropped off 24/7 365 so it was never a burden. My neighbor who bad been at the university in the 60's said they where allowed to keep their guns in their dorm rooms.

I once asked one of the officers what brought about the change and he said there had been a couple of student deaths in campus housing. One was an unprovoked murder and others had been negligent shootings. The Regents response was to remove the guns from student housing. Frankly even with a CCW at 21 it never entered my mind to carry a gun when on campus. Maybe just a different time and mindset but violent crimes where pretty rare. The female students where at greater risk of being victims of sexual crime from peeping toms, flashers to the more serious.

 

[Welding Rod]

Subsection (2)(e) of Washington Administrative Code 478-124-020 (part of the UW general conduct code) prohibits:

(e) Possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on the university campus, except for authorized university purposes, unless prior written approval has been obtained from the university chief of police, or any other person designated by the president of the university;


That for the statewide system. My understanding is that some of the campus's will allow waivers for permit holders though. Some will not.

That is a U Dub WAC, not statewide.

 

[Red Wind]

Maybe just a different time and mindset but violent crimes where pretty rare. The female students where at greater risk of being victims of sexual crime from peeping toms, flashers to the more serious.

As we can see from

this chart

the USA homicide rate is exactly half of what it was in 1978. 9.0 in 1978, 4.5 in 2013 per 100,000 population.

The Regents should check that out. Life is much safer today that it was in the 1970's through the early 90's. And that is with a much higher national population and more than double the firearms in Americans hands.

 

[Old Dog]

That is a U Dub WAC, not statewide.

All the state-supported universities and community college have pretty much exactly the same verbiage in the applicable WACs.

 

[yugorpk]

Yep. They all run about the same. Some will grant a waiver for a permit holder. Some won't. My understanding is Tacoma will but I havent heard of any of the others that will. I'd be surprised if Ellensburg didnt but I'm not basing that on much. In any case I wouldnt not allow my sons to go into one of the best university systems in the world because they couldnt carry a gun on campus after he's 21.

 

[Buck13]

That is a U Dub WAC, not statewide.

UW is not state-wide, but does have several campuses. If you go up a couple levels from my WAC link to here
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx
you can find the other state schools and look into their rules.

WSU is similar to UW. WWU specifically includes airsoft guns under prohibited weapons. I guess the Star Trek disk guns we enjoyed shooting at each other in college in the '80s were more dangerous than I thought!.

That I saw, only Lake Washington Institute of Tech even specifies that CPL holders may store a gun concealed in their locked vehicle. I found that variation interesting.

 

[Welding Rod]

That I saw, only Lake Washington Institute of Tech even specifies that CPL holders may store a gun concealed in their locked vehicle. I found that variation interesting.

That is what I was talking about. These WACs are rules written not by the state legislature, but rather by individual college boards. What is the check on the extent on their authority? Certainly there must be some limitation. Can they tell a student that they face expulsion, or an employee that they may be fired, if caught wearing a cross under there there shirt? It appears so if there is no accountability to the state constitution or anything else.

If there is a limitation, I would like to know what it is as I have an issue I would like to address with a particular board.

 

[IWAC]

Years ago, our State institutions of higher learning(?) were up in arms concerning people carrying firearms legally on their campuses. Finally, the State Supreme Court told them to sit down and shut up! They had no right to deny access to anyone legally carrying a firearm.
Boy, did they ever get their knickers in a wad! Private Universities still have their collective heads in the sand!
I wonder what they would do about someone carrying illegally?

I mean, really! The whole idea of CONCEALED carry is that nobody knows whether you do or you don't.:banghead: