Concerning Masterkeys

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Precision

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In some of the more leniant states, is it legal to own a firearm equipped with a "Masterkey" shotgun? I suppose it's called that because it can open any lock, and I don't see any practical reason why someone would need this, but I think it would still be cool to hang on the wall. I don't suppose any of you have had the pleasure of firing one...?

http://knightarmco.com/m203_12ga.html
 
Really, as far as I can decipher, it'd be totally legal as long as it's length was 26" or more, and it had an 18" barrel (unless it was a pistol-grip-only shotty to begin with, in which case it'd have to adhere to the 26" rule only). You're looking at 20" barreled AR's being about the only platform to fit one, aside from maybe an FAL with a quad rail, or one of its .308 brethren. As long as each fulfills it's necessary requirements to stay out of NFA territory, I can't see it incurring any extra issues. Now mounting a handgun to a rifle, as made possible by Mako/Fab Defense, makes the handgun into an SBR, but that's a different situation, of course.
 
Here is an intresting twist of marketing and the real world.

Marketers put standoff devices on shotguns that will never be used for breaching. The Master Key which is designed for breaching does not have one.
 
For sure, Sam. You could buy a new Remington 870, pay for a tax stamp, and have a 'smith cut down and shorten the tube and slide arms for under a grand, easily. Then, a machinist could make up some clever mounting system for maybe a hundred more. I just don't see paying that much ON TOP of a freaking $200 tax stamp. If I'm registering a short-barreled shotgun, you can bet it isn't gonna be one that is practically worthless when not mated to an AR-15.
 
Not $200 for a shorty

That shotgun is completely legal to own and shoot once you pay a $5.00 tax stamp and have it transferred to you. Some states don't allow short barreled rifles or shotguns. A shotgun like that would be classed as an "Any Other Weapon". Short barreled rifles are on a $200.00 stamp. My Mossberg shorty is a hoot to shoot. I suspect the nomenclature, "Master Key" is tongue in cheek. As for that shorty being useless if detached from the rifle: Look closely at it...all it needs is a pistol grip to be a shooter.
 
Twist the question a little farther.

An "Any Other Weapon" -- specifically a smoothbore pistol firing a shotgun shell -- may NOT have a shoulder stock attached. Not permanently, not once, not ever.

So, how is this an AOW, when it is designed to be fired from the shoulder? Yes, it is attached to a rifle, but that makes it, obviously, attached to the shoulder stock of that rifle, and designed therefore to be fired from the shoulder.
 
shotgun is completely legal to own and shoot once you pay a $5.00 tax stamp and have it transferred to you.
Click to expand...

I am with sam, If you get a Super Shorty you have an AOW, no stock ever. In any case it makes no difference if you are going to build it yourself. An AOW only transfers for $5 if you Form 1 one, you still have to pay $200.
 
aryfrosty said:
That shotgun is completely legal to own and shoot once you pay a $5.00 tax stamp and have it transferred to you. Some states don't allow short barreled rifles or shotguns. A shotgun like that would be classed as an "Any Other Weapon".
Click to expand...
Up until the point you mounted it on the parent rifle. At that point, it has a a shoulder stock, and is designed to be fired from the shoulder (and your "AOW" tax stamp would no longer be valid).
 
Seems the cheapest alternative would be to buy one of the newer Mossbergs with the larger "choke" on it, already in the PG configuration, have someone clever design the mount (as noted above) to mount to a 24" AR...The barrels should end up being roughly the same distance.

Of course, I do not know if the whole contraption would be an AOW, or what the issues would be with the BATFE...
 
Ronsch said:
Of course, I do not know if the whole contraption would be an AOW, or what the issues would be with the BATFE...
Click to expand...
What you describe is entirely legal.

Both firearms will have their legally required barrel lengths, and obviously their legally required OAL.

You only get into "AOW" territory when you have dimensions below the legal minimums.

You want to mount an as-sold-in-your-local-gunshop PGO Mossy under an AR-15 under a Barrett M-82? Quite legal. There are no laws on "stacking".
 
Here is an intresting twist of marketing and the real world.

Marketers put standoff devices on shotguns that will never be used for breaching. The Master Key which is designed for breaching does not have one.
Click to expand...

The military, where shotgun breaching was developed and refined, has always taught a 1-3" standoff. At some point wise Pvt. Snuffy who was doing alot of breaching, mainly in Iraq, decided to improvise a standoff device, which usually involved some type of stick and duct tape. Then wise firearms accessory companies came up with the breaching standoff device, which is really a great innovation. Military units with the funds to do so equipped their breaching shotguns with them. Then, because they look really badass and tacticool, they became all the rage, even though the only door they will ever see is the inside of the closet door they are sitting in.

So don't knock the standoff device, because it is really handy, and is actually used by folks who actually do that type of work, even though nobody is really doing shotgun breaches anymore. Hearts and minds and all that.

FWIW, if there is a military school that involves breaching, I have probably attended, with a little bit of real world experience. I have never seen a Masterkey, and until know I didn't know they existed outside of action movies.
 
I have been taught, but never seen, that if you were to jam the barrel into the soft wood it could cause a blockage, bursting the barrel. Hence the standoff.

Seems kinda silly that someone would do that, but strange things happen in the dark under stress. Especially when you are wearing NVGs with no depth perception.
 
You could build one like former porn star, turned actor, turned politician (but he lost his run for Governor, unlike the other two) Sonny Landham had in predator, without a stamp. Just keep your finger off the trigger and smile once in a while.



sonnylandham.jpg
 
jmorris said:
You could build one like former porn star, turned actor, turned politician (but he lost his run for Governor, unlike the other two) Sonny Landham had in predator, without a stamp.

sonnylandham.jpg
Click to expand...
Kits to do just that were sold soon after Predator was released.

Again, so long as the legally required dimensions are met, it's quite legal.
 
Again, so long as the legally required dimensions are met, it's quite legal.
Click to expand...

Those being 18" barrel and 26" overall length just to remind folks. If you include the breaching brake it needs to be permanently attached.

It's not NFA if you stay above those dimensions.

A true "Master Key" model as shown on the Knights page though is most assuredly an NFA item.
 
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