Confused on weight

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rvenneman

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Since I am beginning to cast bullets, I am confused on the reasoning on bullet weight. I did some research and got more confused since everything thing I read explains prejectory and shows me these beautiful graphs. Being a college graduate, I stunk in math since the only thing I wanted to study is the piano and music theory.
Here is the question I have and hope I can get a simple answer in English.
With 9mm, why would I want to cast or load a 115gr over a 124gr over a 147gr? And a related subject, why a RN over a FN? Does the FN geared more to self defense over a HP?
I want to build some bullets for self defense and for target . I am confused ‍♂️.
Thanks.
 
With 9mm, why would I want to cast or load a 115gr over a 124gr over a 147gr? And a related subject
Bullet weight can impact gun function as well as point of impact. Some guns prefer a particular weight bullet. I would choose what ever weight bullet your guns prefer, AND hits where you want if it's a fixed sight gun. However, if you have only shot jacketed bullets in the past, I do wonder if shooting non jacketed bullets will change your outcome. Also, 147 grain ammo is typically subsonic I think, and will penetrate deeper. If that matters to you....... You will certainly save material in the long run with lite bullets.


RN over a FN?
If just shooting target ammo, I'd choose the bullet profile that feeds most reliably in your gun. Honestly I don't think I've ever shot a FN 9mm, only round nose, aside from hollow points I mean.

Personally, for 9mm, if I was going to cast anything, it would be for practice ammo, and then choose a premium factory bullet for defense rounds. That's just me.
 
With 9mm, why would I want to cast or load a 115gr over a 124gr over a 147gr?
Not trying to be a wise guy (well, maybe a little) but you can get more 115gr bullets than 147gr bullets out of a pound of lead alloy.:D
Seriously though, not even talking about performance, back when I was casting bullets, I always found the heavier bullets, in any given caliber, a little easier to cast. I think it might be that it's easier to maintain a steady mold temperature with heavier bullets, but that's just a guess.
And a related subject, why a RN over a FN?
RN bullets generally feed better in a semi-auto. However, like 460Shooter, I don't think I've ever shot a genuine FN 9mm bullet.
I want to build some bullets for self defense and for target .
Also like 460Shooter, I'd stick with factory bullets for self defense with a 9mm. I can cast a dandy 250gr Keith 44 Mag bullet for self defense against critters with teeth and claws, but that's different.:)
 
Since I am beginning to cast bullets,...
I want to build some bullets for self defense and for target . I am confused ‍♂️.
I think that you'll want a soft compound for S/D
Target, a harder one to keep the leading down.
 
I tried shooting lighter cast 9mm's...but ran into leading issues being as they needed to be driven too fast for the scrap lead I was using to run in my various guns. The 147 Lyman (sized & lubed about 154) fly very nicely and don't need anything in the way of special alloys to run cleanly being as they're subsonic at full power and don't break 1000 fps any old lube will work. Granted you get more bullets per pound with the lighter ones, I'm just really pleased with the Lyman https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...m-356-diameter-147-grain-flat-nose-bevel-base. Loaded over 3.8 grns of WW231 it's a full power load with great accuracy.
 
You might consider buying small quantities of commercial cast bullets in various weights and profiles and figure out what bullet (and powder charge) works best in your application before buying molds and making your own. I think you will find that the loads you use for SD will be quite a bit different than for target.
 
Kind of an involved question(s), but I'd recommend you post the same question here; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?8-Cast-Boolits Just about everything connected to lead bulets is discussed here.

Much of the bullet design has to do with the original intent of the cartridge and what the gun was designed for. I believe the 9mm Parabellum was originally designed for a conical flat nose bullet around 125 grains for military use...
 
You've basically asked why different bullets exist. The answer is, of course, quite complex. There are a lot of different variable desires/goals/needs on the part of different shooters, or the same shooter using different guns, or the same shooter using the same gun for a different purpose.
 
With 9mm, why would I want to cast or load a 115gr over a 124gr over a 147gr?
I wouldn't.

It's simple physics where Force = Mass x Acceleration and economics of cost per round:
  • With lighter 115 gr bullet, we often need to push the bullet to near max load data to reliably cycle the slide. At near max load data, velocity is higher which increases problem with leading and felt recoil is more snappy.
  • With heavier 124 gr bullet, we can usually reliably cycle the slide with mid-to-high range load data and with moderately fast burning powders (like WSF/BE-86/W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol and faster), initial "bumping" of bullet base is enough to deform/expand to seal with the barrel to reduce/eliminate leading even at lighter target velocities and felt recoil is less snappy than 115 gr loads.
  • While even heavier 147 gr bullet will reliably cycle the slide with even less felt recoil, many prefer to use 124 gr bullet due to lower cost per bullet.
Comparison picture of various 124 gr 9mm bullets:

index.php

why a RN over a FN?
While RN bullet generally feed and chamber more reliably than FN bullet, many shooters (particularly match shooters) may prefer FN over RN (FN is essentially RN with material removed around the contact points of RN and added to the bullet base) because FN's longer bullet base/bearing surface gets seated deeper in the case neck which increases neck tension and improves chamber pressure build for more efficient powder burn, especially at lighter target velocities (Compare MBC SWC bullet base to Dardas/Z-Cast RN bullet base in above picture).

Decades ago, most lead RN bullets were long and pointed (See Dardas/Z-Cast bullets above) but in recent years, more rounder RN bullets with shorter nose with longer bullet base became available (See MBC RN above) which improved neck tension from deeper seated bullet base. Many bullet casters like Dardas offer both types of RN bullets (longer pointed nose with step to clear rifling with shorter leade and shorter rounded nose with longer bullet base).

And here is a comparison picture of different profile bullets loaded to typical OALs

index.php
 

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I think that you'll want ... a harder one to keep the leading down.
I used to think that way and used harder 20-24 BHN bullets but never could completely eliminate leading.

Then Missouri Bullet Company came out with softer 18 BHN bullets and my leading problem essentially went away. What I found was my 9mm barrels were slugging at .355" to .356" groove-to-groove and harder .356" sized bullets were not deforming enough to seal with the barrel even at near max/max velocities. With softer 18 BHN bullets, they were deforming enough to seal with the barrel (even at lower powder charges) to eliminate leading.

Many bullet casters are now using softer lead alloy and Dardas advertises 16 BHN and Z-Cast advertises 14-16 BHN.

My Taurus PT145 barrel is oversized at .453"+ groove diameter and 18 BHN 200 gr SWC bullet (IDP #1) was leading the full length of the barrel and accuracy was poor. When I switched to even softer 12 BHN 200 gr SWC bullet (Bullseye #1), leading went away and accuracy returned indicating softer bullet deformed/expanded enough to seal with .453"+ oversized barrel.
 
I can’t figure out why you would want to cast any 9mm bullet, unless you are loading for something historic.
I don't even reload 9mm. So cheap to buy.
I don't handload to save money. I do it because I enjoy it, and because I enjoy using my own loads for most purposes. I used to enjoy casting many types and calibers of bullets too. I just kind of got tired of it, and gave away most of my lead alloys and casting equipment.
Nowadays, I buy commercially cast handgun bullets because I still enjoy shooting cast lead bullets for most purposes in most of my handguns. But I don't even try to "figure out" why other people enjoy doing things I don't, or vise-versa.:)
 
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I reload 7 different calibers for 15 different guns. Not going to have time to reload for 9mm. Got to go shooting some time!
 
I don't handload to save money. I do it because I enjoy it, and because I enjoy using my own loads for most purposes. I use to enjoy casting many types and calibers of bullets too. I just kind of got tired of it, and gave away most of my lead alloys and casting equipment.
Nowadays, I buy commercially cast handgun bullets because I still enjoy shooting cast lead bullets for most purposes in most of my handguns. But I don't even try to "figure out" why other people enjoy doing things I don't, or vise-versa.:)
I agree. Though I have never cast my own. I do like to load my own, trying this and that out.
I saw some Winchester 9mm in a brown box the other day for $9ish. Pass, too boring.
 
I wouldn't.

It's simple physics where Force = Mass x Acceleration and economics of cost per round:
  • With lighter 115 gr bullet, we often need to push the bullet to near max load data to reliably cycle the slide. At near max load data, velocity is higher which increases problem with leading and felt recoil is more snappy.
  • With heavier 124 gr bullet, we can usually reliably cycle the slide with mid-to-high range load data and with moderately fast burning powders (like WSF/BE-86/W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol and faster), initial "bumping" of bullet base is enough to deform/expand to seal with the barrel to reduce/eliminate leading even at lighter target velocities and felt recoil is less snappy than 115 gr loads.
  • While even heavier 147 gr bullet will reliably cycle the slide with even less felt recoil, many prefer to use 124 gr bullet due to lower cost per bullet.
Comparison picture of various 124 gr 9mm bullets:

index.php


While RN bullet generally feed and chamber more reliably than FN bullet, many shooters (particularly match shooters) may prefer FN over RN (FN is essentially RN with material removed around the contact points of RN and added to the bullet base) because FN's longer bullet base/bearing surface gets seated deeper in the case neck which increases neck tension and improves chamber pressure build for more efficient powder burn, especially at lighter target velocities (Compare MBC SWC bullet base to Dardas/Z-Cast RN bullet base in above picture).

Decades ago, most lead RN bullets were long and pointed (See Dardas/Z-Cast bullets above) but in recent years, more rounder RN bullets with shorter nose with longer bullet base became available (See MBC RN above) which improved neck tension from deeper seated bullet base. Many bullet casters like Dardas offer both types of RN bullets (longer pointed nose with step to clear rifling with shorter leade and shorter rounded nose with longer bullet base).

And here is a comparison picture of different profile bullets loaded to typical OALs

index.php
Thanks for that explanation.
 
I cast bullets for 3, 9mm pistols, 2 45 ACP, 3, 38 Specials, 1, 357 Mag., 5, 44 Magnums, one 30-06, 1, 303 British and 1, 7.62x54r. I use the same mold for my 3 9mm and 3, 38 Specials and my 357. With a little forethought I have pretty much eliminated any barrel leading and get accuracy the gun and I are capable of. Reloading is fun and satisfying, but only half as satisfying as reloading your own cast bullets successfully. I can afford to buy copper condom bullets, and I can even afford to buy factory ammo, but why?
 
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I use the Lee 124gr truncated cone tumble lube mold for 9mm. Use some 12 hardness alloy Just shake them in Alox without sizing them. That’s the only way it’s economical based on time. It feeds reliably, punches a nice hole in paper, should penetrate better than any jacketed bullet if used in self defense. I load them in the upper mid range with a medium speed pistol powder.
A jacketed bullet brings nothing to the table for me. So you won’t find any jacketed pistol bullets on my bench.

In general for casters leAd is the cheapest part of the equation so you want heavier projectiles so you use less powder. (Though your not gonna notice what you save with a 9mm load) like others mentioned, less velocity of heavier bullets almost always translates to less leading potential.

I don’t cast round nose bullets. I’d sell any auto that won’t feed a swc or tc. All my weapons may be used for anything. Hunting, plinking, defense. A round nose is only good for plinking (unless it’s soft or moving fast enough to expand) The wide meplat of a cast flat nose pretty much determines what size hole you punch in a target. A round nose will pass through like a FMJ.
 
I cast for just about everything I load including some 9mm. I have generally found better results (in terms of cleanliness and accuracy) with the heavier bullets. The ACME 147 FP is just so good that I often don't bother casting for 9mm if the loads are going to be used in a gun that can feed the ACME bullet.
For guns that don't like to feed heavier FP bullets I use the Lee 124 TC sized at 0.357 and coated
 
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