Confusion and concern with 40 S&W loads

[Oldgoat03]

Forgive me for bringing up what appears to be a well visited subject BUT I am new to reloading, to this site and have no mentor to ask. I am teaching myself by reading my Speer manual as well as reading posts here. I have also found watching utube videos helpful.

I began by reloading for my 45 ACP on a Lee single stage to learn/understand all the steps and have recently moved to a Lee classic turret. I really like the new turret for the volume I need and ease of caliber changes.

I picked up some Win 231 as an easy to get locally and seemingly universal pistol powder. I had good success loading and shooting my 45 ACP and 38spl loads.

I did some research and found a fairly wide range of load data.

I loaded a box (50) of .40 S&W over the weekend but haven't tried shooting them yet. I planned to shoot them in my trusty Glock 23 (GEN 1).

As mentioned I ended up using win 231 and Rainier Ballistics plated 165 gr RNFP but had limited success finding exact matches for my components...as follows.

Speer manual says:
JFN (close to Rainier 165 plated RNFP?)
Win 231 5.8 gr (*start) / 6.3gr (Max)
*Note says – approx 165gr law Enf loads (40 lite)

Lee says: (Instructions that came with 4 die set)
165 gr jacketed (XTP only other 165 gr ref and didn't seem as good a matach)
Win 231 4.8 start / 5.3 Max

With little else to go on I decided that the Speer manual was a safer reference and loaded the following for plinking use in my G23. (no chrono yet)

I Loaded the following thinking it was light based on Speer load data:
Rainier Ballistics 165 gr plated FP
Win 231 5.6gr
OAL 1.12

Note - I weighed every charge to be safe so know they are right on 5.6gr.

After loading them I did a bit more research on line and it seems from most forum posts that 5.6gr 231 may be excessive (contrary to Mr Speer). Is Speer that far off? The large spread in recommended start/max data now has me concerned for safety. For now I just want plinking ammo and will certainly learn and adjust my recipie from experience. That said, I don't want to risk safety.

If these loads are a bit snappy I can live with that for 50 rds and will load next batches lighter. I will also probably use Tight group (consistent recommendations) next time since now have some to try.

Since I have no mentor (yet) I need to ask this august group for opinions>
Should I just go shoot the 50+ I've loaded? ... Or should I go thru the frustration of pulling and reloading them lighter?

For what its worth I live in Woodinville (western) Wa. and would really appreciate hooking up with someone experienced locally.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Bob (Woodinville Wa)

 

[rcmodel]

I would think you would be O.K.

Lyman #49 says 5.8 is max with a 165 Speer TMJ.
It also says 5.6 is MAX with a 180 grain Sierra JHP.

It also says 5.8 is max with a 175 cast lead bullet.
And Rainer says you should use lead bullet data with their plated bullets.

rc

 

[Oldgoat03]

Thanks RC that was my inclination. Anyone else have an opinion / recommendation?

Also I am interested in expanding my reloading ref's. I have the latest edition speer and was looking at Lee and Lymann. Both had short commings listed in terms of being current for 40 S&W. I am interested in recommendations for a new manual.

thanks again!
Bob

 

[JC98]

I loaded some Berry's 155gr plated at 5gr and 5.2. No problems but with plated you want to make sure you keep your velocity under 1200fps so I loaded light to be on the safe side.

 

[kludge]

Hodgdon's data (pasted in the next line) uses a JHP, so you might get a way with a little more, but you're using plated so you should use a little less.

165 GR. SIE JHP Winchester 231 .400" 1.125" 4.8gr 946 28,100 PSI 5.3gr 1001 32,500 PSI

Lee usually just copies other people's data.

Sound's like 5.6gr might be a little a little hot.(?)

Call or e-mail Hodgdon and ask their opinion. They're usually pretty good to work with.

 

[Blue68f100]

Rainer says to use Lead data, NOT Jacketed. Berry's says to use Jacketed low to mid level.

 

[rsrocket1]

All your info is good to know.
QL estimates with Rainier 165g RNFP seated to 1.12" and 5.6g W231, your chamber pressure will peak at 27 kpsi (out of 35k max) that's in the safe zone with a decent safety margin. Out of a 4" bbl, you should get around 1022 fps

 

[Samari Jack]

All your info is good to know.
QL estimates with Rainier 165g RNFP seated to 1.12" and 5.6g W231, your chamber pressure will peak at 27 kpsi (out of 35k max) that's in the safe zone with a decent safety margin. Out of a 4" bbl, you should get around 1022 fps

Is there some formula for computing pressures or are you getting them from a book?

 

[rsrocket1]

QL is Quickload which is an interior ballistics program. It estimates pressure and muzzle velocity for a cartridge, bullet, seat depth, powder, charge and barrel length. Very good for "what if" situations. It doesn't replace a book or real load experience, but it does predict most loads surprisingly well.

 

[gahunter12]

Word of caution on Lyman's load data for 40s&w. If you will look at the begining of the 40s&w it says the test barrel is .401" instead of .400". That's the reason the load data is higher than say Hodgdon's web site. I had the same question a while back. I have learned to read Everything when searching for load data. Then if you still have concerns ask questions. No telling what would have happened if I loaded off of Lyman's data with a bigger barrel in my .400" barrel. Thanks THR!

 

[joneb]

I always assemble dummy rounds with new to me bullets for my auto loaders, I manually cycle these through the action and check for bullet set back and cycling issues. I adjust the COL and charge accordingly.

 

[Gonzofam]

I just went through this with these Reigneer bullets or how ever you spell it. I did a small ladder this weekend with 45acp and 9. These bullets crack on the sides and smush sometimes. Even when afew chambered wrong it was because of a flat smush on the tip of th bullet. The ones that had no smush fed smoothly. If the bullets were swaged twice it would oleviate the problem so. I belled the brass a little more which will give it less life i know. But the lower end of thethe charge on both calibers is what worked best. Not the happiest with them but they are just plinking range stuff. I have nosler custom comp for the 45 which is outstanding in all aspects which is my next step up from range/plink.

 

[Striker Fired]

I'd load some up at 4.8 and test them,then move to 5.0gr and so on,to make sure how the higher charge will be.It sounds like you should maybe stay away from Titegroup for a bit and get more of a "feel" for loading the .40.
Not trying to be a ****,but some powders should be left to more seasoned loaders.

 

[iblong]

5.8 with a 165gr bullet is a duplicate load to the LE.40 light.
Shoots and functions fine in my 27 and will be under a 1'000 fps.