Confusion with the Lee Autodisk

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Dorryn

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I am a poor newlywed as well as a college student. So when I wanted to start reloading to save myself money, a couple buddies bought me the Lee Classic Turret Press and the dies to reload .40 cal.

I bought a couple manuals (Modern Reloading 2nd Ed., ABC's of Reloading), powder, primers, 180gr copper-plated bullets, and of course I already had over 1000 brass cases sitting around. Took me 2 hrs to set up and over the next two days I made 275 rounds using the "starting load" listed in Modern Reloading, using the Autodisk, with the .61 hole. But things are starting to get confusing, especially as I cannot afford a scale in order to confirm the weight of powder thrown. I did not think to wonder until I approached 300...

I understand, on a very basic level, the difference between measuring by weight and measuring by volume. The start load for the Accurate #9 (ball) powder I am using is 9.6 grains, and apparently .61 in the Autodisk is the equivalent. Ok. Ive made almost 300 of those, im starting to think of making some slightly stronger loads, although I have no desire to approach the NEVER EXCEEDS point. However, the next largest hole in the Autodisk is .66, and the never exceed point is 10.7 grains, compressed... So I do some basic math: .61/9.6 = .66/x, which works out to be 10.4 grains, which is still beneath the limit, supposedly. Doesnt seem totally convenient that my only choices are starting load of 9.6 grains, and near-the-limit 10.4 grains, which uses the ".66" hole... :banghead:

Then I decided to check with THR, and did a search. I found this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=257006
So, if the Lee press is potentially throwing light, with no way for me to check it (being scale-less) ive got 300 rounds sitting around im afraid to fire for fear of obstructing the barrel (being also bullet-puller-less). Then again, if some people are using 1 or 2 steps up on the autodisk holes, that gives me a few more options...

Am i totally screwed? Are there any ways to increase the amount of choices for quantity of powder loaded short of tossing out the Autodisk? I intend to buy a scale when I can afford it, but that doesnt give me any more choices, it merely checks what the Lee is producing, or confirms grains, not what the hole equivalency is... Is there some sort of mathematics i am (probably) failing to understand here? I see that I have plenty of choices of variables in terms of powders, bullets, and primers... but it feels awkward to have 2, maybe 3 choices alone in how much powder to dispense.
 
I was having fun with it, thats why I made so many. Plus, since im doing this primarily to save money, a $15/hr range fee is one reason I havent had the opportunity to test fire them. Im planning on going Friday, until I heard that the loads potentially threw light. Accurate #9 is also a slower burning powder, and ive heard dangerous pressures can occur in rare circumstances with light loads of slow-burning powder.

Looking at that Lee Adjustable charge bar autodisk, it measures in CC... Then I am supposed to assume that 9.6 grains of Accurate #9 fills .61cc? Is that how it works? Geez. The farther I get into reloading the more I feel like I need a friggin 4-year degree in Mathematics.
 
You have to get a scale to confirm the charge you are throwing. I have 2 Lee auto discs that I use on my presses and they both measure powder consistently, but one throws a charge .2 grains larger than the other. Loading without a scale would be like driving in heavy rain without windshield wipers... you can do it but not without being a danger to yourself and others. You can purchase an inexpensive scale on ebay or Midway for no more than $30. The Lee safety scale is not expensive, but it works and is on sale at Midway.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=712103

Whatever you do, Get a scale and calipers! To continue w/out the basic equipment is negligent at the very least, and safety has to be your first concern when reloading as you can not afford to damage your firearm or injure yourself or others through unsafe reloading practices!

When you develop a load, one usually does a limited number to test before loading hundreds of rounds (20 rounds) to avoid what you are now facing.. are they too light, or are they over maximum?
 
OK, you already have "Modern Reloading". Good start. Now read the section on volume measuring and how to use the charts showing weight by volume for the various powders. Also pay attention to the fact that the charts are starting points, and your work should be confirmed using a scale.

Next, before you reload any more ammo, buy a scale. The Lee beam scale is inexpensive, and works great. I have been using one for many years, and see no need to step up to an electronic.

If the budget allows, buy the adjustable charge bar. It will allow you, using your scale, to tweak your loads to perfection.

Sure, it will cost you a couple of bucks, but how much is it going to cost you to replace your gun or pay for an emergency room visit if you get things wrong?
 
The Lee Auto Disk will throw light on cool dry days and throw heavy on warm humid days. It will also throw light when there is a high pressure in the area and heavy during a low pressure. Having an Auto Disk II and having used it for 20 years I would say you will be just fine shooting them. If you have a little doubt. Chamber one round and fire it. If you don't see a hole in the target check the bore for the bullet.

The difference in light and heavy will be +/-0.2 to 0.4 grains.

However it is highly suggested that you purchace a good scale new or used...I would recommend the RCBS 5-0-5. They aren't that expensive...Especially what they will save you in heart burn...
 
You gotta' be kidding us, right?

Trying to load without a scale is about like driving with your eyes shut--etc., etc.:what:

If you can afford the stuff you've bought so far and the freakin' computer you are typing on, you can cough up 22 bucks for a Lee Safety Scale or 30 bucks for a Frankford Arsenal Digital scale from Midway!--:scrutiny:

All the Lee data/instruction sheets tell you they show light charges in the tables--all canister powders vary in density from lot-to-lot. No way can you figure where you are without a scale. And any Adjustable Charge Bar action without a scale is just the same thing you have with the fixed cavity disks.

At best without a scale you will be somewhere ±10% from where you want to be. Why would you want to do that?:confused:
 
IMHO, a $30 scale is probably a good investment, being that it's a safety device.

Not to be offensive, but not buying safety equipment because it's expensive is like trying to buy a new car and take off the Seatbelt and Airbag options to safe some money because you 'probably will never need them'.

congrats on the newlywed, as well as the college thing. That's gotta be tough!
 
Dorryn,

You’re not the first person to start loading without a scale due to financial constraints and you won’t be the last. If a Harbor Freight Tool store is anywhere near where you live than go by and look at their small digital postal scale, these are very often available on sale for less than $10.00. While I’m not enthused about everything available at Harbor Freight this is actually a good item. It will do until you can afford something better. Than when your circumstances improve you can acquire some better equipment. Remember that with any scale you need check weights to confirm your calibration with. I recognize that this is an additional expense but offer you this option, using another persons scale (i.e. friend, school lab, post office) measure 2 or 3 known items, such as different small caliber bullets, bolts or washers. Now mark their weight on them or place them in small envelopes with the weight marked on them and keep them in a padded box to prevent damage to them. Now with the bullets you’ve already loaded, borrow a kinetic bullet puller from another loader and pull one out of every 10 bullets you loaded and check your powder charge weight. You can reuse the bullets and powder in reloading these pulled rounds and do not have to remove the primers to reload them, just flare the case mouth and reload.

Best

creekwalker
 
Part of the reason I dont know these things is because I dont know anyone who reloads. :( Ive had to figure it all out.
 
That's why you buy the books and manuals suggested in the sticky for new reloaders and read them BEFORE you start reloading and ask lots of questions on reloading forums.

Now go get yourself a scale of some kind before you get yourself hurt. You'll just have to spend one night at home instead of taking girlfriend out to pay for it. And don't try to blow any smoke, we've all been there, done that.

Regards,

Dave
 
DIFBGA said:
You'll just have to spend one night at home instead of taking girlfriend out to pay for it.
Click to expand...

He's a newlywed, if he has a girl friend as well, I know why he doesn't have any money :):):)

Seriously, I think he's gotten the message by now.
 
Are there any ways to increase the amount of choices for quantity of powder loaded short of tossing out the Autodisk?
Click to expand...
Keep the auto disk, that isn't the problem. It doesn't matter what powder measure you are using you need to check it with a scale.
Rusty
 
Keep the Auto Disk.

Philbo,

His wife can't be his girlfriend as well? If she isn't his girlfriend as well as his wife at this point in their marriage, they're in trouble already.

Grin,

Dave
 
I bought the books, and I read the books, Dave. I also read the stickies. Before you assume that im ignorant through laziness, please understand im ignorant for want of anything resembling a clear explanation. Exactly how much knowledge am I expected to have before I can ask questions on these forums? Im not a math wizard: Ive read many of the threads here and they are complete gibberish to me.

The problem is the books, even the ones supposedly for beginners, immediately launch into complicated explanations that rarely explain the why and seldom in any level of detail that would make it easy to do without someone actually demonstrating. They frequently use terms they dont define, and any hope of a reference in the back of the book is laughable. What seems obvious to someone who has done this for years is not obvious to those of us attempting to figure it out on our own. :(

I get the picture that I need a scale, in order to verify that the volume throwing system of the Lee matches with the grains listed per powder. Since nobody answered, I am going to assume that the way the Autodisk works is by using a rough approximate cubic centimeter measurement that vaguely approximates the grain weight listed, eg. 9.6gr = .61cc. :confused:

As far as calipers, from what I understand, bullets seated deeper reduce case capacity thus increasing pressure: not something im worried about if in fact the Autodisk throws light. And in making the rounds ive made, ive erred on the side of caution. All of them eyeball exactly the same OAL as factory ammunition.

It would appear the simple answer that im receiving from everyone is that there is nothing I can do, i need to spend more money. :banghead: $30 is a wonderful deal for a scale, but its also our bi-monthly food budget. We dont eat out.
 
Sorry so many guys here have busted your chops. I think it's more a matter of concern for your safety than anybody wanting to pile on you.

As far as the books are concerned, you're right. There is a certain amount of jargon associated with any hobby. That jargon takes a while to learn.

A few things...

1- Don't load any more until you are able to afford a scale and a good set of calipers. A good used scale off of ebay will probably not run you much more than $30 shipped. I picked up my used set of calipers from a pawnshop for $15. Sears sells cheap plastic calipers for about that much and they will work. $15 will also buy you a kinetic bullet puller that is well worth the cost.

2- The charge weights listed should work fine in your pistol even if they are a little light. The stories you have heard about slower powders and low charge weights: 1-Have never been recreated in a scientific setting and 2-usually involved much larger capacity revolver cartridges such as the .45LC and .44mag.
In any event a $.99 dowel from Wal Mart will clear any squibs you may have without hurting the barrel.

To the other reloaders.....

He screwed up a little. Big deal. He has (hopefully) learned from this experience. Anybody got a cheap functional scale they can give him or sell for the shipping price instead of piling on?

BTW- If you have any questions you don't want to post here, PM or email me and I will do my best to answer them or get in touch with someone more knowledgeable than myself than can answer it.

W
 
Dorryn,

The prudent thing to do is then hold off doing any reloading until you save up and purchase a scale. Weighing your powder dispense is a mandatory not an option if you want to be safe. Also if you follow good reloading practices you will routine check your powder measure dispense after every x number of dispenses. All powder measures have a standard deviation for each type of powder you need to find out what your's is so you can pick a safe load that can safely handle twice the deviation. As if you haven't already experienced it and are sadly aware shooting isn't a poor man's sport and it's getting more expensive every day
 
Dorryn, PM me and I will send you a Lee scale I don't use any more. As far as calipers go you can get by without one for a while. You can use a factory round to adjust your seating die. The Lee disk measures will throw some powders accurate to the chart and some will be light. I don't have any experience with the powder you are using. I would try one since you know they are on the light side and check to make sure it leaves the barrel. If it doesn't you can clear it with a wooden dowel very easy without hurting anything. If the first one shoots fine then the rest should be OK. In the future I would suggest not making more than 10 to 20 rounds before you can test them, but you probably already figured that out from some other posts. Stay safe and ask questions, you will get a lot of good help here. I am in the same position as you. I don't know anybody that reloads and had to learn from books and the forums.
Rusty
 
Benedict1...I reloaded using the Lee dippers for a year before I got a scale and my Auto Disk II. I'm still here...And I have all fingers hands eyes and all. With most powders the Auto Disk is safe enough as long as he keeps them in the low to mid range...That, by no means, do I not recommend a scale. In fact I highly recommend a scale and soon...
 
Dorryn first thing first , Calm down ! You don't need some advanced math degree to reload just follow the guide lines of powder charge , standard primer , general OAL and good brass .

If your reloads are in the middle to lower end of the powder range for your bullet and you seated them to an OAL close to a factory round you will be just fine .

I reloaded for years with just the Auto Disk measure and no scale or calipers by sticking to this rule .

Enjoy shooting your loads in this range as they will most likely be very accurate .

If you feel you must get near the top loads you will have to have a scale to do it safely and the Lee Charge Bar is the best way to get there . If your loads are all in the exteme lower end and all you want is a little more oomph from them yet the next disk size is too much powder there is another way .

Lee makes two other products when combined will help , the Double Disk kit combined with a micro disk will allow you to make "To a degree" fine adjustments in powder charges .

Do yourself a favor since you are just staring and stick with an easy to measure powder like Winchester 231 or Power Pistol both will work fine in the 40 S&W combined with the Auto Disk measure "I use them" for this round and have had no problems .

Since you have Lees book look in the back to charts on these products and you can see which will best meet your needs .

One last thing you are using Copper plated bullets which are in between a lead and a jacketed bullet in hardness "I also have some of these and have asked the manufature how to load them" you can load between the max load for lead and the starting load for a jacketed bullet .

Looking at Accurate Arms site for data with #9 powder for the 40 S&W http://www.accuratepowder.com/

the max load for a 185 gr LRNSWC is 9.7 grains and the start load for a JHP XTP bullet is 9.9 with a max for this bullet being 11 grains , I am sure your 300 loads are safe to shoot .

A Faster burning powder would be a better choice for this round though .
 
With all the Autodisk experience flowing thick and fast:

I'm looking in the Lee reloading book, and the loads for rifle show DD in the disk column. Do I correctly understand that I must get the Double Disk riser for my AutoDisk to load rifle with this measure?
 
Dorryn,

I bought the books, and I read the books, Dave. I also read the stickies. Before you assume that im ignorant through laziness, please understand im ignorant for want of anything resembling a clear explanation. Exactly how much knowledge am I expected to have before I can ask questions on these forums? Im not a math wizard: Ive read many of the threads here and they are complete gibberish to me.

I fully understand what you're saying and I know it sounds like to you I'm being a hard @$$, but I sincerely and seriously don't want you to get hurt. Reloading, unfortunately, is something that has a language of it's own and to some extent, you'll have to study it like you would any othr subject matter in college. I didn't assume you were lazy, just wanted to urge you to put as much effort into studying how to reload as you would mastering a college subject. If you do that, you'll learn the language and what's being said will start to make sense. But to do that, you may have to read it a bunch of times.

The problem is the books, even the ones supposedly for beginners, immediately launch into complicated explanations that rarely explain the why and seldom in any level of detail that would make it easy to do without someone actually demonstrating. They frequently use terms they dont define, and any hope of a reference in the back of the book is laughable. What seems obvious to someone who has done this for years is not obvious to those of us attempting to figure it out on our own.


Since I taught myself to reload using the very same books, I understand, but I can encourage you by saying you can learn from those books, but you'll have to read them several times, using a high lighter to help you focus in, just like a college text. That's how I did it. You can do it too.

I get the picture that I need a scale, in order to verify that the volume throwing system of the Lee matches with the grains listed per powder. Since nobody answered, I am going to assume that the way the Autodisk works is by using a rough approximate cubic centimeter measurement that vaguely approximates the grain weight listed, eg. 9.6gr = .61cc.

The Auto Disk provides fixed volumetric measurement defined using the metric system. What changes is the powders you use vary in size, shape and density. They even tend to change due to heat and humidity to some extent. This is why one wants the scale to check things with.

As far as calipers, from what I understand, bullets seated deeper reduce case capacity thus increasing pressure: not something im worried about if in fact the Autodisk throws light. And in making the rounds ive made, ive erred on the side of caution. All of them eyeball exactly the same OAL as factory ammunition.

If you're loading for pistol and depending on if it's a pistol (automatic) or a revolver, you'll want to match the OAL to your chamber. I don't see what gun you're reloading for, so I can't comment further. Being cautious is a good idea. A suggestion: When you start out loading, load some dummy rounds with no powder or primer to set up your press with. Once the press is setup, then work up a load from the low end of the scale, Loading about 20 rounds at each powder weight. IF your auto disk doesn't have an extra set of disks, you'll need the double disk kit to give yourself some more range of adjustment/settings.

It would appear the simple answer that im receiving from everyone is that there is nothing I can do, i need to spend more money. $30 is a wonderful deal for a scale, but its also our bi-monthly food budget. We dont eat out.

Been there, done that. Sometimes money is tight in one's life. You may have to put things off until you can afford it better. Or you may have to take a second job or collect cans/bottles/range brass to pay for things.

How do I know this and why am I such a hard @$$? Because like you are doing now, I've been through this stuff (Trying to figure out reloading and being a poor college student.) once upon a time and I know you can do it. You just have to choose to. Come to think about it, I'm a poor college student right now, as I'm back in college changing careers, so I know exactly where you're coming from. I want a boat to go fishing, but to get one, I'm going to have to come up with some way to pay for it without going into debt or screwing up the food budget. You can take it to the bank I'll have some sort of boat I can fish in within 3 months and I won't owe anybody a dime on it and it won't come out of our grocery money.

Consider this: "Winners never quit and quitters never win." Think on it and figure a way to go after what you want without going into debt for it. Don't get frustrated and don't let it bother you it's something you may have to struggle for. Because you can do it. When you do, you'll have accomplished something worthwhile, because you did it on your own.

Regards,

Dave
 
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