Considering reloading, question on startup costs along with loading 8mm

[M1ke10191]

Hey guys,

I'm very much on the fence on reloading since there's so much to know about. I read the sticky on what's needed to start reloading, but instead of endlessly searching the internet I wanted to ask here; I was hoping someone could give me a ballpark estimate on the price to get everything set up and then to begin reloading 8mm Mauser rounds (eventually other calibers, but for now just 8mm).

I saw the Lee Anniversary Kit on MidwayUSA which looked like my best option (I'm going for the most inexpensive setup possible). The thing that looks good about the kit is it's cheap and it looks like it includes almost everything I'd need. Being new at this, I don't want to have to individually buy a lot of stuff when I don't know exactly what I need/what works best.

I would imagine for $200 I could get started, including the dies for 8mm. Is that accurate?

Also, surplus 8mm Mauser seems to be going for 40 cents/round before shipping, with commercial ammo being nearly $1/round. Would reloading 8mm be much cheaper or would I only be saving a few cents? Honestly, if it'll cost me 90 cents/round to reload vs $1/round to buy the ammo, I'd probably end up selling my M48. It's only a paper puncher. I can't justify spending $1/round on a plinker, especially when I have a Mosin with plenty of ammo.

Anyway, I'll stop rambling. I hope you guys can give me a hand.

Thanks a bunch.

-Mike

 

[JoeMal]

I'm new to this as well....have started buying equipment and haven't loaded a single round yet...

I've spent over $300 on equipment so far to load 9mm. I'm sure you can do it cheaper...but here are things I've purchased:

Lee Classic Turret Press
Lee 9mm dies
Lyman tumbler
Bullets
Calipers
Hornady digital scale
ABCs of Reloading book
Lyman 49th Reloading Book
Cartridge cases

Still need to get:
Brass (I have some...but not enough )
Powder
Primers
Trimmer (not needed for 9mm but will need when I start reloading rifle calibers)
Reloading bench
Other tools
Lighting
etc
etc
etc


Welcome to THR! If you are thinking you will save money reloading...we'll find other ways to spend your savings

 

[mookiie]

It is about 50 cents a round for rifle depending on how you buy bullets (quantity buys lowers price per). You could get started with a basic lee classic turret setup for 200 but you will find you could spend 100 times that depending on what you want to do. I also started reloading about 2 years ago and I am still using the same lee classic press for 10,000+ rounds over 14 calibers. The lee kit is a great choice but besides that you will need a tumbler, media separator, and digital scale. Everything else you can kind of get as needed if you are only starting with one caliber.

 

[Lost Sheep]

You can get by for as little as $50 to $100 if you shop carefully and get used equipment. Later tonight I will post a link to an experienced loader who set himself a "project" to find out how cheaply he could put together a setup that would produce good quality ammunition.

Kempf's Gun Shop has a marvellous kit built around the Lee Classic Turret for about $215 which has all you need to get started except manuals, a caliper and a scale.

The Lee scale is $25, but many don't like it because it is hard to read (but accurate as any other scale on the market) and only weighs a maximum of 110 grains. Quality balance beam scales will set you back $50 to $200. Cheap electronic scales start at around $25, but you get what you pay for and would be well advised to have a beam scale to check it for accuracy. Or a set of check weights, which will cost you some more.

Calipers are important. You want to measure your brass to determine when you need to trim. Also to ensure your bullets are the right diameter and stuff like that.

I loaded for decades before ever getting a brass tumbler. I just wiped them down with a soft cloth. Some people wash them (and dry thoroughly, of course). I have a tumbler now, but my ammo shoots just the same as it ever did.

A bullet puller ($20) can wait until you have the need to pull a bullet, then go get one. I loaded for several years before I ever had one and several more before I ever used it.

Essentials: Press, Dies, Scale, Calipers. For bottlenecked cases, a lube pad (or you can use spray lube). Eye protection. Manuals

Nice to have: Powder dispenser/measure, Primer dispenser or priming hand tool, loading blocks. They speed things up considerably and add a level of convenience well worth their cost.

Good to have: Dropcloth to catch dropped items/powder and prevent them from rolling away or disappearing into the carpet.

Watch for my next post.

Cost: here is a link to a search result which shows a bunch of links to cost calculators.

http://www.google.com/search?q=hand...F-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7DMUS_enUS244

Welcome to reloading and thanks for asking our advice.

Lost Sheep

p.s. Figure it this way. How much would you like to shoot in a year. Add up the cost for ammunition. Compare that amount to the cost of a press, 40 brass cases (which can be re-used 5-10 times, dependng on how hard you are on your brass) and enough powder, bullets and primers to equal the number of rounds you shoot yearly. If you want to count your time, also count the fact that you are producing your own ammo, independent of your dealer's selection, at power levels to suit you and your rifle, which can be tailored to be more accurate than factory rounds.

Yeah, it's worth it.

 

[Josh45]

I think a ball park figure of $300-$400 is more realistic. I would check Grafs as well since you already checked MidWayUsa.
As for how much it will cost you in reloading, That depends on how much you reload and how you select your components. A pound of powder is 7000 Grains. So, at 1 Gr per charge is 7000 rounds. Do the math.

The fact that you can reuse your brass several times is where the savings come in but they end up in the berm you shot them at. You will see when you start by what I mean. You also need a caliper to measure your OAL. A good reloading manual like the Lyman 49th edition. Get a good scale. The Lee one is accurate but kinda frusterating when trying to zero. Well for me it was. Could be different for you.

I can reload my own 30-06 rounds for about $9.87 cents give or take for a box of 20. That is a savings of anywhere from $6-10 dollars a box. MidWayUsa has blem bullets for sale. If your serious about reloading, I would at least get a a box or two to try it out. And since there on sale, You can save a few more bucks.

 

[wdyasq]

For me the largest advantage was/is I can 'download' my high power rifles and shoot cast bullets at lower cost, velocity, recoil and report.

I regularly hunt squirrel and rabbit with both a .308 and a .358 Winchester. I can also carry a few heavy hitters in my pocket and it a feral pig or something similar presents itself, I can deal with it.

I've shot varmints, deer and lots of other things with a .458 WinMag and lead bullets for about as cheap as I can shoot MilSurp ammo.

I did find I needed to shoot a lot more to actually save money .... but it didn't work out that way. I just ended up shooting more in more calibers.

Ron

 

[mookiie]

Lost sheep - how did you reload for several years WITHOUT a bullet puller? You always seat the bullets perfect on the first go?

 

[Lost Sheep]

Lost sheep - how did you reload for several years WITHOUT a bullet puller? You always seat the bullets perfect on the first go?

Well, first I was loading handgun rounds with lead bullets that had crimping grooves. I checked OAL with a ruler and stayed scrupulously in the lower end of power levels.

Ignorance also helps.

I also was loading on a single stage and weighing every charge for the first few years.

I was very careful. What I lacked in equipment and knowledge, I tried to make up for in caution.

To be honest, there were two in my first decade that I should have pulled, but I had no clue they were bad until I fired them. Then there were the 50 slightly oversized bullets that expanded my cases to where they wouldn't chamber.

When I made a mistake on a progressive and ran my powder measure empty, I wound up having to pull over 30 bullets to make sure I had found all the squibs. Aside from those, I have probably only used my bullet puller on a dozen rounds of mine. I've pulled other people's more often than my own.

Lost Sheep

 

[Lost Sheep]

Getting started cheap

Two threads that might be inspirational


Here is some encouragement, titled "How much to start reloading....dirt cheap! "
Thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439810
www.Thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439810

"Budget Beginning bench you will never outgrow for the novice handloader" was informed by my recent (July 2010) repopulation of my loading bench. It is what I would have done 35 years ago if I had known then what I know now.
rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-budget-beginning-bench-you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html
www.rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-...you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html

Lost Sheep

 

[M1ke10191]

Thanks guys.

One more question. Is there a powder that would be good for loading smaller calibers like .223 while at the same time being good for larger ones like 7.62x54R and 8mm? I don't want to keep track of a bunch of different powders if I can avoid it.

 

[Trent]

Varget.

 

[gfanikf]

Varget.

Just picked up some today along with primers.

To OP I recommend the Lee Hand Press and dies and items from FS reloading along with calipers and scales from Amazon. I got this for 8mm and it's easy to get in piecemeal.

 

[Duckdog]

You can definitely save a few bucks and waive the tumbler for now. I use a Lee zip trim, a three jaw chuck, and steel wool for rifles and a cloth with brake parts cleaner for pistol, if I even clean them at all!

The Lee classic turret is a fine press. I have 4 presses and that's my favorite.. hands down.

My advice is to start with the basics and get things you want later on, as you actually determine it is something you will actually use. Reloading is a hobby that many of us have done for most of our adult lives and I can say I still have gadgets I would like, but still do not have.

Start with the basics and get a few rounds done. Move on from there. Most of all, dont over analyse it to the point of scring yourself out of it.

 

[Trent]

Yeah cleaning brass is mostly a cosmetic thing - also handy for inspection to check for damage. You don't, strictly speaking, NEED to clean your brass. But eventually this may catch you with your pants down as you'll miss the "end of service" signs like a bright ring forming in front of the webbing, or small cracks in the neck!

Don't overdo it! It's VERY easy to spend a small fortune on reloading stuff. Go look at the pictures in the reloading bench pic thread. Once the hook sets in (usually about the time you get the hang of things, get a good load worked up, and find "oh my god this is more accurate than any factory ammo", there's no amount of money you can't spend.

 

[Ram48]

new here also

I bought a lee classic turret kit and a Hornaday (small) sonic cleaner. I have yet to load a round but de-primed about 1200 rounds and cleaned about 140 in the sonic cleaner. In less then 1/2 hour the brass was as close to like new as I could hope for inside and out including the primer pockit nothing stuck inside the cases and I just put them on a towel dried them a bit and the next morning they were ready to go.

 

[Ram48]

new here also

I bought a lee classic turret kit and a Hornaday (small) sonic cleaner. I have yet to load a round but de-primed about 1200 rounds and cleaned about 140 in the sonic cleaner. In less then 1/2 hour the brass was as close to like new as I could hope for inside and out including the primer pocket no media stuck inside the cases. I just put them on a towel dried them a bit and the next morning they were ready to go.

 

[Snag]

I'm not big on reloading kits. I think if you ahead of time read reloading books and stuff you can sit down and write yourself a list of the things you actually need. Potentially you could end up spending less and getting either better quality or just a better selection of gear. Better to start with the bare minimum and buy later, rather than start off and find you spent money on things you don't use.

Reloading isn't really gonna save you much money. You'll just end up shooting a lot more.

 

[Lost Sheep]

To Kit or Not to Kit?

Snag, I couldn't say it better. Perhaps I can say it in more detail.

A kit will get you started with ALMOST everything you need. They always lack something. They also have things you use, but will be unsatisfied with and trade in (at a loss, it goes without saying). So the savings in getting a kit is largely illusion. But it probably will get you started a little quicker.

A Kit will also have things you don't need, which is a waste of money But does provide some trade goods.

Building your own kit MAY be a little more expensive, but carries with it the research (and knowledge gained therefrom) you do in selecting the equipment best for you.

How long is your foresight?




Without a press, dies and a way to mete powder, you cannot load, period. (Exception, the Lee Load-All, which is dead slow and uses a mallet to drive the process, which is dead scary to watch.)

These two, you cannot load without, physically. Press and dies.

Powder can be measured out by scoops, by scale or by a powder measure or a combination of those and it would be exceedingly foolish (or suicidal) to load without measuring your powder.

Likewise, a set of calipers to measure the dimensions of your components and finished rounds.

So, count four items as absolutely essential. Everything else adds safety, efficiency and speed. Most can be done without, improvised or substituted for (e.g. a lube pad: fingers, paper towel, or sponge can do, or spray lube can be used).

The "more than are essential" items, though, are necessary for reasonable safety. A loading manual with load recipes and instructions of how to go about the process. A pair of safety glasses (just in case a primer goes off, which is rare, but can happen).

So, six things HIGHLY HIGHLY recommended.

A way to place primers in the priming cup on the press is a great help (rather than using your fingers) and will speed things up as well as reducing the chance that skin oils will contaminate the primers.

Seven things and your are reasonably set up for everything you can expect.

A bullet puller will enable you to disassemble any rounds you put together that are out of spec (or that you suspect might be). Loading blocks let you keep a batch of cartridges together conveniently. Micrometer will help measure things when you find that you want to measure something. Most store-bought bullets are the right size, so yo might not need the micrometer for a while.

As you load and develop your personal style, you will find things you would like to have. Pick them up as you go.

How you populate your loading bench, and with what pieces of gear is largely, then, a matter of personal style. There are several different ways to approach your question.

1) Buy a ready-made kit

2) Assemble a kit of your own, choosing as complete a kit as you can get, of premium gear you will never outgrow

3) Assemble a kit piece-by-piece with the components you expect you will never outgrow, but only the minimum pieces absolutely necessary and expanding as you find need for each additional piece, slowly, and as money and knowledge allows

4) Assemble a kit of your own choosing as complete as you can get with affordable gear that you will use until you outgrow it and hope that, by that time, you will have figured out what you want to use and will never outgrow

5) Assemble a kit of your own choosing with the minimum usable, least expensive components and upgrade as your tastes reveal themselves and as money allows. Spend money for upgrades as your taste spurs you.


Each approach has its proponents. Each approach has its virtues and its drawbacks.

As I see it, each approach can be evaluated:

1 Store-bought "complete" kit. Swap out components as needed:
virtue: easy and requires little thought
drawback: can be wasteful, and requires little thought

2 Self-Assemble complete Kit:
virtue: requires you think about loading BEFORE you commit money and body parts
drawback: requires a lot of study, and even so you may make less-than-optimal purchases

3 Slowly self-assemble premium components kit & add-on as you go
virtue: you learn about loading and your equipment thoroughly and only spend money as you are sure of what you are buying
drawback: takes more time (weeks, maybe before you are completely set up, though you can be loading the first weekend)

The approaches I outlined should provide you some food for thought. What type of hobbyist are you? Are you analytical and thoughtful or do you jump right in and improvise as you go? Got more time than money, or more money than time?

4 an 5 are similar to 2 and 3, but will ultimately cost more because of the trade-ins.
virtue: you get to refine your loading style and more time to shop around for your ideal choice in equipment. You get experience.

Aside: You know where good judgement comes from? Bad experiences. You know where bad experiences come from? Bad judgement.

drawback: costs a little more for the superior experience.

My first advice: Read "The ABC's of Reloading", an excellent tome on the general processes of reloading.

Having said that, let me share with you some posts and threads I think you will enjoy. So get a large mug of coffee, tea, hot chocolate, whatever you keep on hand when you read and think and read through these.


The "sticky" thread at the top of TheHighRoad.com's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Thinking about Reloading; Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST"
http://www.thehighroad.org//showthread.php?t=238214

The "sticky" thread at the top of TheFiringLine's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST "
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171

The first draft of my "10 Advices..." is on page 2 of this thread, about halfway down.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=22344

http://www.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php?t=43055

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448410

Thread entitled "Newby needs help."
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391
My post 11 is entitled "Here's my reloading setup, which I think you might want to model" November 21, 2010)
My post 13 is "10 Advices for the novice handloader" November 21, 2010)

http://www.Thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439810

"Budget Beginning bench you will never outgrow for the novice handloader" was informed by my recent (July 2010) repopulation of my loading bench. It is what I would have done 35 years ago if I had known then what I know now.
http://www.rugerforum.net/reloading...you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html

Minimalist minimal (the seventh post down)
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332

Lost Sheep