Contender in 7X30 Waters For Distance?

[Lloyd1069]

Just curious, I just purchased a Contender in the 7x30 Waters.
Is this the best distance round from Contender for White tail deer?
I am going the last week of deer season to a location where a 250+and 300 yards shots are common.
If this were yours, what else would you add to this gun?

Currently
14 inch barrel with muzzle break
2.5-6 Scope (getting a better one fast)
Competition recoil controlled grip

 

[lawson]

if you're already going to get a better scope, i think you're set.

my dad's custom contender rifle is in 7-30 Waters (custom barrel and stock, 1st generation contender action). he's taken more than one deer at 200+ yards.

 

[EVIL5LITER]

Can you even buy that round?

 

[Geno]

Practice, practice, practice.

You will find that while the Contender hold the current world record (last I knew 1" X 3.5" @ 500 yards), the potential for misses on your target are exponentially higher than with rifle. Buy a good bi-pod and have a bucket to set the grip on when firing...that's what I do.

Regarding the 7-30 Waters, it is a very good round. I suspect that at 300 yards you may be well running on fumes in terms of expecting a one-shot kill. I hit a whitetail with a 130 Gn. .270 Win. with my Encore at about 200 yards (heart/lungs). It managed to go a couple hundreds yards and ran onto private property...there went the beautiful steaks! Nice antlers too.

My point, while the accuracy potential certainly exists, proceed with due considerations to power at extended ranges.

Doc2005

 

[redneck2]

IIRC, the 7-30 has less steam than a .30-30 from a rifle. I wouldn't consider the .30-30 a 300 yard gun by any stretch

I've got a Contender in .357 Herrett, which I believe is noticeably more stout than the 7-30, and I'd be quite hesitant to take a 300 yard shot.

You're shooting at living stuff, not a piece of paper

Anyway, I've got a friend that does a LOT with Contenders and Encores. Hunting, silhouette. He has tried about every scope out and recommends Weaver.

 

[Lloyd1069]

7x30 water

A lot of good information. A couple of responses, I am still looking for everyones BEST CHOICE for distance from a Thompson round. Is it the 7x30?

Redneck2, you said a 30-30 round is a 300 yard round? I will be honest, all my life I heard a 30-30 is a 100 yard brush round. Meaning it is a heavy bullet used for hunting in heavy, thick wooded areas. This was why it was put into a short barrel lever action rifle. It was not designed as a distance round.

I have been told the 30-06 is too heavy and become flighty at distance.

And the best over all was always a 7mm or a 308.
I am not saying what I have been told is correct, just saying what has been explained to me over the years.

As for the question on can this round be purchased. Yes, it is hard to find here in Texas but can be done. I buy a federal premium box for $18.
Once I reach 100 rounds, I found a local shop who will reload all 100 for about $50. He will load some heavier hunting rounds and some lighter ones for target shooting. Sounds like a good deal.

Still looking for someones thought on what the best Contender round is for distance.
Have a great day.
ps,
cool on no avatars but, could i add a picture to my signature? and how

 

[db_tanker]

I am a happy owner of a 14" TC factory 7-30 Waters. Got a Weaver 4x scope on it.

With my personal loads, I have confidence against any whitetail and most size hogs up to 200 yds.

Past 200, I will pass on that shot. I know what I can do with that barrel, and, most importantly, what I CAN'T do with that barrel.

As this is Texas...most shots around my area (pines and brush) are considerably less than 200 yds.

Favorite load for around here is 32 gr. of W-748 under a 140 gr Sierra Game King with either fireformed brass or Federal. Low recoil and not much report...BUT I don't have a muzzle brake.

Factory Federal loads are probably a good choice for 150 max yards due to them being flat nose. Still good hunting bullets, however.

I have been messing with some Speer 160 gr. boat tails...good accuracy at 100 so far, but still not enough data yet. have to run them through my chrony to get an idea where I am really at.

If it were me....I would carry a back-up long arm.

300 yards would tell me to grab my 308. The heavier the bullet, the better at longer distances...its all got to do with ballistic coefficient...and thats where my knowledge ends on that. lol

Best choice for distance...not a factory round, to be sure.

7mm Bellm/Alpo/other names....a 444 Marlin necked down to .284
308 Bellm and other names....same deal....444 Marlin necked down to 308...easier to do because you simply lube up the 444 and run it into a 308 sizing die...trim to length and your ready to go. uses 308 seating die, as well.

D

 

[Lloyd1069]

Thanks for the info

db tanker, thanks for the update. I appreciate it. Guess I will start looking for a differant barrell. I found a lot of 308's on Gunbroker.com

I did not see any you have listed. I will keep searching.

Anyone have any idea what that world record holders caliber was?
500 yards, I could not even see the bulls eye that far out!!!!

 

[Versifier]

Lloyd, Honestly, even 200yds with the 7-30 on a deer is really pushing it for a rifle with its longer barrel giving you higher muzzle velocity. Maybe for a coyote that goes down a lot easier, maybe. Can you knock over silhouettes at 300 yds? I can't, not without a good rest, laying down and bracing it on my leg, and I have been shooting Contenders regularly for more than 30 years. But silhouettes are nonliving hunks of iron - if you make a bad hit and wobble it, it's no big deal. To risk a marginal shot on a living animal is at best unethical.
Most rifle shooters can't consistantly hit a paper plate beyond 150 yards, even with a solid rest and a good scope. I'm not saying it can't be done or that you can't do it, but your choice of caliber and lack of clear understanding of its capability makes me wonder. It takes a LOT of practice to be hitting anything at those ranges, never mind a clean shot in the kill zone. I think a good bolt action rifle with a decent scope would be a better option for most anyone, myself included. I would never take a shot with my Contender at a deer much beyond 125yds, because I know what the round is capable of, what I am capable of, and most importantly, what we are not capable of.
If you really are able to shoot a handgun accurately at those ranges, get yourself an Encore in a rifle chambering like .308, .30-06, .270, or .280. As mentioned above, a bipod or shooting sticks wouldn't hurt, either. The better the rest the more accurately you can shoot. There really isn't a chambering for the Contender that can handle what you need it to do, it just isn't designed to withstand the working pressures of the cartridges that can give you the terminal ballistics necessary to have the bullet strike a large animal with enough remaining energy to expand and kill reliably and cleanly at 250-300yds. That's why Thompson came out with the Encore, it's basicly a larger and stronger version of the same basic action, and you can get a barrel for it in just about any chambering you could wish. I believe those .308 barrels you were looking at were for the Encore and not for the Contender, too. About the biggest .30 cal the Contender frame can handle is a .30-30 (which, despite what you were told is just fine out to around 200yds with a 125gr bullet, not much different than your 7-30 with a comparable bullet).

 

[Matt G]

Just out of curiosity...

If you'll have shots out to 250 or 300 yards here in Texas... why not carry a rifle?

Handgun hunting is fun... at handgun distances.

 

[jd25q]

If your using factory ammo 300 is out of range. Reason being factory ammo is loaded for the lever actions. The bullets are flat tipped so that in a tubular magazine they don't set off the primer in front of them. This results in a poor ballistic coefficient, and a corresponding high loss of velocity. If you can reload on the other hand...

There are excellent long range bullets available in 7mm. My hornady manual shows 139 grain bullets at 2600fps from a 24" barrel. The same velocity the book shows for the 7mm-08 in an 18 1/2" barrel. The hornady 139 grain sst has a b.c. of .486, about double that of the flat nose bullet. At 300 yards that bullet is travelling at 2077 fps, is 4.7" low from a 250 yard zero, and has 1330 ft lbs of energy. Should be plenty for a deer.

Of course this is assuming a rifle barrel. In a handgun you'll probably only be at about 1600 fps at 300 yards. You may well hit the deer, but the chances of the bullet expanding reliably go way down at that velocity.

 

[Lloyd1069]

Response on the 7x30 waters

I have not been on for a few days. I wanted to update everyone on my latest trip. I was glad to read the post after my return. The last week I was hunting I had an opportunity shot on a 8 point. It was out aproximatley 200 yards +/-. I was uncompfortable taking that shot. I had a bi-pod I was using, but I could not hold the contender steady enough. My little redfiled 2.5-6x scope was not helping either. It does not have a wide enough field of view. I could not get a clean look and passed on the shot. As I read your post, it went right along with my thoughts on a clean hit at 200 yards. I am activley seeking a better scope. Maybe a 3x9 or even up to 12x. At this point, I can't see the target well enough and I need to be able to steady the contender better. It is a very difficult do hold since it can not be butted againt my shoulder. The distance and velocity of the federal flat nose makes since as well. I don't want to move to a rifle as the whole reason of the contender was the small size. The guy I purchased the contender said he had many kills in the 200 yard range. I am not thier yet and will continue to practice.
Where can I purchase something OTHER than the federal rounds?

Thanks to all the post.... Great information. I hope to read more.
Lloyd

 

[Oldnamvet]

Redneck2, you said a 30-30 round is a 300 yard round? I will be honest, all my life I heard a 30-30 is a 100 yard brush round. Meaning it is a heavy bullet used for hunting in heavy, thick wooded areas. This was why it was put into a short barrel lever action rifle. It was not designed as a distance round.

I have been told the 30-06 is too heavy and become flighty at distance.

And the best over all was always a 7mm or a 308.

30-30 can now be a longer than 100 yard round with the new leverevolution ammo.

30-06 "flighty" at distance?? Huh?

Best always a 7mm or 308? 308 is just a little slower than the 30-06.

You have been the victim of some people's personal opinions not based in fact.

 

[flatdog]

Lloyd1069,

You said you need a wider field of view and higher power in your scope. The two are opposed to each other. Field of view usually decreases as power increases. You may very well see only hide not the whole animal through that 12X scope from field shooting positions. You shouldn't need to crank up to 12X to cleanly take a whitetail at 200 yards.

Also your perception of unsteadiness will increase as the magnification increases. 10X is about as high as many ( not all ), rifle shooters go from a rock solid bench rest.

The "flighty" 30-06 stuff is extremely bad advice. You could just about write a book on how bad it is.

The new 30-30 ammo is supposed to make it good out to 200 yards not 300. But as yet, I have no experience with it.

There are other companies making 7-30 ammo. I think PMC is one.

I shoot a Contender carbine in 7-30 Waters and love it, but I think 200- 250 is about what you should ask from it in carbine form. If you want more range upgrade your caliber.

 

[Lloyd1069]

7x30 waters

On the scope, I am unsure of the wording I guess. The scopes eye piece is huge, yet the barrel end is not much bigger than the size of a nickel. 20mm maybe? I am having a difficult time seeing through the ENTIRE view. When I get my eye positioned properly, I have trouble with compfort and the cross hairs jump all over the place.
As for the info on the 30-06, 7mm and 308, I had stated they are all just things I have heard. From what I can tell they are all ok for 100-150 yards apparently. After that, I would assume a gun rifle/handgun, a special load and a lot of ability from the person taking the shot.

Lloyd

 

[Art Eatman]

A bullet doesn't care if it comes from a .308 or a .30-'06. My '06 will shoot right at a minute of angle at 500 yards; I've done it on the range at my house. Lotsa .308s will do the same.

Any rifle can easily be made to shoot quite well, particularly for hunting (as opposed to benchrest competition). You can get tight groups with almost any cartridge I've ever heard of, and that's a lot of cartridges.

The reason most folks limit a .30-30 to around 150 yards is because of the typically crappy sights; and, the 2,200ft/sec muzzle velocity with a round-nosed bullet means the trajectory gets rather balloon-like beyond 200 yards. With a scope or with precision sights, it's less of a problem to go to 200 yards.

7x30? That's a 30mm case length? Won't hold much powder, so not a bunch of Oomph beyond around 100 to 150 yards. Possible problems with bullet expansion beyond 150 or so.

Just some bits and pieces...

Art

 

[killzone]

If I were you I'd sell the contender and buy a nice Ed Brown chambered in any 30. magnum - and enjoy hunting forever without a single dought But that's just me...

There is nothing wrong with handgun hunting, dont get me wrong. I think its fun - even bow hunting... No question... But when its tome to pull that trigger and you are 300+ yards out. I think a Good ol' Rifle will pay its dues much faster.

I always said shot placement is the key to most of the succesful hunts. On the other hand , it should be considered that good choice of ammo could be the master key most of the time when aiming at game at extanded ranges.

In your case, I would hunt only with a rifle that is well eqiped. Have nice hunt

 

[redneck2]

Originally I posted

IIRC, the 7-30 has less steam than a .30-30 from a rifle. I wouldn't consider the .30-30 a 300 yard gun by any stretch

Then someone posts..

Redneck2, you said a 30-30 round is a 300 yard round? I will be honest, all my life I heard a 30-30 is a 100 yard brush round.

No, I said it WASN'T a 300 yard round, or probably even a 200 yard round. That was my point. So, maybe I should make this a little clearer. Most guys probably couldn't hit a deer size target with a rifle with a makeshift rest at 300 yards, let alone a pistol.

For a little wake-up call, take your hunting firearm and ONE round of ammo. Get one of the life size cardboard deer targets and set it up at 300 yards and take ONE shot. Deer don't care what your "group" size is, or where the 5th shot landed. First shot is the one that counts.

I had a shot at a 12 point buck opening day at 180 yards with my muzzle loader. There was a 25-30 mph wind quartering toward me. I passed up the shot. I'm not going to be the guy that gut shoots a trophy deer.

So again to answer the question...there's a guy that advertises in Handloader Magazinefor Encores with custom chamberings for long distance. Ad says they are true 300 yard guns. That's the route I'd go.

 

[Smokeyonur6]

I have not been on for a few days. I wanted to update everyone on my latest trip. I was glad to read the post after my return. The last week I was hunting I had an opportunity shot on a 8 point. It was out aproximatley 200 yards +/-. I was uncompfortable taking that shot. I had a bi-pod I was using, but I could not hold the contender steady enough. My little redfiled 2.5-6x scope was not helping either. It does not have a wide enough field of view. I could not get a clean look and passed on the shot. As I read your post, it went right along with my thoughts on a clean hit at 200 yards. I am activley seeking a better scope. Maybe a 3x9 or even up to 12x. At this point, I can't see the target well enough and I need to be able to steady the contender better. It is a very difficult do hold since it can not be butted againt my shoulder. The distance and velocity of the federal flat nose makes since as well. I don't want to move to a rifle as the whole reason of the contender was the small size. The guy I purchased the contender said he had many kills in the 200 yard range. I am not thier yet and will continue to practice.
Where can I purchase something OTHER than the federal rounds?

Thanks to all the post.... Great information. I hope to read more.
Lloyd

LLoyd,
I have looked high and low for another factory round for my TC 7x30 14in JDJ. It did not like factory loads at all. I don't know if they still produce it but COR-BON made a round designed for the 7x30 JDJ barrel. I wasn't impressed! I finally started reloading my fire formed brass using 139gr Hornady SST. I've also loaded up some 160gr Fail Safe's although I have yet to test'em. The SST's are hitting consistancly at 100 yrs within 3-4 inches with my work up. "ya I need more practice" I've been using the Lyman reloading manual which has spacific numbers for the TC 7x30. Good luck and keep practicing and know what you can and CAN"T do.

 

[Hobie]

I would suggest that you hunt and get close. 200-300 yards isn't close.

If you want such a gun it can be had. There is a .50 MG "pistol". The Encore will handle quite a few very flat shooting rounds. However that isn't the limiting factor, you are. Regardless of scope or cartridge your ability to shoot and hunt is what will make you successful (if you measure success solely by the amount of game killed).

 

[MCgunner]

I, too, pass on anything over 200 yards and I need a good rest for even a 100 yard shot. You ain't shootin' a contender off hand at extended ranges. I have a tripod stand with a good gun rest built in and carry "shooting stix" afield. I don't feel very competent with the gun past 100 yards off the shooting stix. I guess I need some practice, but I've never taken a deer with the gun past 75 yards. I'm in the coastal bend region of Texas. We have our senderos, but if I know I'm going to be shooting at longish range, I take a rifle. I've not hunted with the contender out in west Texas for that reason. Shots there can push my 400 yard self imposed rifle limit (on a windless day with no elevation problems). I shoot .30-30 using ballistic tip BTSP bullets which carry enough energy out to 200 yards, but they're running out of poop at that range, too.

Can you even buy that round?

You can't buy 7mm TCU BRASS to my knowledge, much less ammo, but I fire form mine from 5.56mm military brass and load my own. You'd be foolish to shoot factory 7x30 Waters with flat point bullets. They SCREAM for boat tailed spitzers from a hot handload in a contender. There's no need for a flat point if your gun has no tube magazine, after all.

IMHO, if you hunt, you need to reload, especially with a contender. It expands your horizons where odd calibers may be desirable.

 

[Lloyd1069]

7-30

I recently visited sskindustries.com
They live and breath contenders. They did offer to change the factory 7-30 to the 7-30 improved. I opted for two new barrels. I orderd a .257 and a .309 so I have 2 choices.
They say to .257 is the best long range round made for long distance shooting and has the ability for 300 yard shooting. I of course do not have the ability, the round does. The other is the round they claim to keep them in business. It is the .375, if you get a chance, go to thier web site.
It has a pic of a guy with a contender rifle in 223. He had a kill at 1115 yards. Yeah, it took 7 shots, but I could have shot 100 and still missed.
The 7-30 along with the 2x6 redfield is currently on ebay!!!! JUST LEFT EBAY