Contender Shooting Tips?

[Peter M. Eick]

I was shooting a contender today and I learned a few things.

1) the grip consistency of the primary hand is critical for best accuracy This seems to impact right left errors.

2) the grip tension of the offhand and placement also has a lot to do with accuracy. This seems to impact the vertical stringing.

3) the trigger pull on my contender is really pretty rough. I need to shoot it more and smooth it out.

4) Longer barrels do not necessarily mean better accuracy.

5) I need new grips. The recoil was banging the finger lever/trigger guard into my primary hand.

What tips can you all offer for better contender shooting?

 

[EddieNFL]

In my silhouette days, I used the Pachmayr Gripper (I think that's the model). The finger grooves helped me with consistent grip position. I placed the support hand under the fore end. I didn't really grip it, just sort of laid the gun in my hand...much like off-hand in NRA HP rifle matches.

After IHMSA allowed optics many shooters began using Ken Light mounts that allow you to hold the scope. Quite a few used a short eye relief scope and held the gun up close.

 

[hoghunting]

One of the best ways to increase accuracy shooting the Contender is to use a rest. I also competed in silhouette matches, and a hit in the butt or leg would knock the ram off, but that isn't accurate enough for hunting.

 

[Tomcat47]

Yes ! The Pachmeyer Gripper and Foreend are the BOMB!

Makes a lot of difference and a great feel....you would not believe it.

 

[xr1200]

Heres a copy of a post I made from and earlier date, this lists the problems with a contender. The easiest way to make to shoot better is to sell it and get an xp100 or a savage striker.

Any break action gun pistol is not the accurate as a solidly fixed barrell, like a bolt action ect.

The problem with the contender is that any pressure exerted on the forend or barrell will cause a significant shift in POA, like a bipod or pressure on the barrell. Even resting the forend or barrell on a shooting rest can effect it.

In order to shoot a contender pistol consistantly accurate you must sight it in and shoot it the same way you will hunt with it. Meaning off hand shooting or gently resting it on a shooting bench being very carefull to not rest the barrell or forend on any surface, ( you must rest the grip only and try and sight in it at 50 yrds. max).

I experimented for 3 yrs/ with a 223, 30-30 and 35 rem contender and found that they are very difficult guns to shoot consistantly accurate.

Here are some results 223 14" barrell contender with harriss bipod and burris 2-7 x scope, the best it would do is 7" groups at a 100 yrds.

Eventually converted barrell to a 18" rifle barrell with a reamed out 223 match welded flash suppressor and installed a shoulder stock on it and a longer hand guard , harris bipod and weaver 6-18 power scope, the best the contender converted to a legal rifle configuration it would shoot only 3-4 " groups at 100yrds.

I finally gave up on it and switched to remington xp100's in 7mm and 35 cal. The 7mm xp100 scoped would consistantly shoot .375" MOA for 3 shots at 100 yrds. A lot of you will claim it was me and not the gun that was the problem. But the example between the xp100 and contender show proof that it was the contender and not the shooter.

 

[flipajig]

I havea G2 and the only problem with a Contender or Encore is they multiply..
your grip is important I shoot mine off a rest or a byepod I have 5 different barrels for my contender a 22LR,223,44mag,30-30 and a 7-30 waters all of them will shoot providing that I do my part. my longest shot was 250 to 300 yds at a rockchuck
I also have 2 different grips and foreends one is a costom set from Bullberry and the other is a Pacheyer they both work verry well for me. another thing that ive done is take them to a gun smith to have some trigger work done on them my G2 and Encore both break under 2lbs and are verry clean. I will try and find a tgt that I was able to shoot and post a pic it was 4 shots at 100 yds with factory ammo shooting off a rest it was shot with my 7-30 waters.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I am not going to use it with big calibers so I ruled out the bolt action approach. My interest was almost solely for a 357 Maximim in say a 12 to 14" barrel. This is to compliment my other 357 max's I already shoot routinely. Also I just punch paper for the fun of it so most of my shooting is offhand.

I got a great deal on a 10" max barrel so I went for it to at least get my foot in the door.

I ordered Pachmyer grips and forearm last night. Thanks for the advice. They were cheap so I got them on the way.

Thanks for the advice on the rest and using the forearm. I was just sort of palming it offhand and found the grip variability is critical.

 

[EddieNFL]

Here are some results 223 14" barrell contender with harriss bipod and burris 2-7 x scope, the best it would do is 7" groups at a 100 yrds.

I've fired better (much better) groups at 200 meters using cast bullets from a 14" 7TCU Contender.

 

[mongo4567]

Here are some results 223 14" barrell contender with harriss bipod and burris 2-7 x scope, the best it would do is 7" groups at a 100 yrds.

Your results are not typical. Did you have someone else try to shoot them?

 

[mbopp]

In contrast to xr1200's experience, my 357 Herrett shoots just over an inch and the 218 Bee goes 3/4" at 100 yards.
The original Contenders are said to be easier to get a good trigger on than the G2's. My G1's is fine but you can do a Google search on Contender triggers for more info.
For cheap shooting you can load cast bullets in the 357 Max, that's what I do in the Herrett.

 

[xr1200]

I had a encore in 7mm 08 that did the same thing, the problem is in the break action design and also the thin forearm.

when ever the firearm is a break action , it is not that accurate as the barrell and the frame moves every time the gun is loaded and the hinged barrel is susceptable to POI change from simple pressure.

If the contenders or the encores were made more like a Ruger #1 action they would be more accurate.

I'm not the only ones who had problems shooting contenders at the range, I often found others guys that had a lot of problems with them.

I only ran into one guy at the that could shoot a contender decently, and he had a 35 rem , 14 " with a 2x leupold scope. What he did to shoot it accurately was to use leather sand bags and rest the contender as lightly as he could and then fire it while holding it very gently.

My point is simple any firearm that is made and claimed to be a hunting or target gun. Should be able to picked up and shot accuratley by any average individual with a minimal amount of training. Not by having to use a lot of different holds and shooting postions.

Simply compare scoped contender to scoped xp100, and have a person who never shot a gun before try each gun with minimal training and try and have them shoot each gun form a bench at 50 yrds.

Your end results would be that the contender barely hit the target and that the xp100 was almost dead on every shot. Results like this indicate its the guns design not the shooter.

I've experimented with all types of hand guns, rifles and shot guns for over 30 yrs and I know what works and what doesn't and I would say I am a pretty decent shot with all of the guns I own.

 

[EddieNFL]

Definitely not for everyone.

 

[mongo4567]

To the OP, I would say that getting the trigger lightened and smoothed out would give the best results. I have had to practice to get good with mine due to the very heavy pull.

xr1200 - I would say I am a pretty decent shot with all of the guns I own

Except for one....

Some firearms are harder to shoot well than others. Light guns like the P22, or ones with heavier trigger pulls, or rifles with a straight European stock. If you had put your Contender in a Ransom rest you would see how it really shoots. I would say that it is valid to say "the Contender isn't for me, I couldn't shoot it well", but to say that the break action is a bad design is just wrong.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Bad trigger? Is it a G-2?
On my G-2 I took it apart and smoothed all the contact surfaces except the sear/hammer surfaces and then installed a lighter trigger return spring. Big difference.

Larger grips in general seem to really help the left-right swing and reduce recoil.
Longer barrels are a PITA. Unless you're shooting a rifle caliber, 10" is max for me. My best off hand shooter was a 7" .357 by MGM.

 

[riddleofsteel]

Anyone that says a TC Contender can't shoot has not spent enough time with one. Back in the day I found most Contenders just as accurate or even more accurate than a factory rifle in the same caliber.

 

[xr1200]

Smoothing out the trigger on a contender is going to do nothing to fix the fact that the POI changes all the time on a contender.

Simple fact is the gun is an inferior design to compared to all the bolt action long range target pistols. Why do you think all the top competitors use xp100 style pistols for long range shooting.

Blame it on the shooter all you want, the best thing a contender owner can do is NEVER BUY THE GUN OR SELL IT.

 

[cfullgraf]

I am not going to use it with big calibers so I ruled out the bolt action approach. My interest was almost solely for a 357 Maximim in say a 12 to 14" barrel. This is to compliment my other 357 max's I already shoot routinely. Also I just punch paper for the fun of it so most of my shooting is offhand.

I got a great deal on a 10" max barrel so I went for it to at least get my foot in the door.

I ordered Pachmyer grips and forearm last night. Thanks for the advice. They were cheap so I got them on the way.

Thanks for the advice on the rest and using the forearm. I was just sort of palming it offhand and found the grip variability is critical.

I have a couple 10" Contenders with Pachmayr grips and forends, one is 357 Magnum. I used to shoot IHMSA production with the 357 Magnum barrel. It takes some investigating to learn to shoot them offhand. Groups improve dramatically when you can shoot off a rest, such as when in the Creedmoore position.

Longer barrels are difficult at best to shoot without a rest of some kind. But, improper placement of the rest can causes accuracy problems.

I have a Contender carbine in 221 Remington that out shoots my Remiington 700 in 221 Remington.

All of my Contenders are first generation Contenders with the adjustable triggers. I do not remember what the G2s have but the current generation trigger is the same non-adjustable design as on the Encore. That is too bad that the lawyers apparently got to Thompson's design staff.

 

[hoghunting]

Here are some results 223 14" barrell contender with harriss bipod and burris 2-7 x scope, the best it would do is 7" groups at a 100 yrds.

When I was shooting in competition, using a 10" .357 Contender with a 4X Leupold, my offhand groups were around 6" @ 100 meters - 110 yds.

With the two barrels I hunt with - 14" 7-30 Waters and .223 - I have no problem getting groups much smaller than 1" @ 100 yds with my handloads and the forearm resting on a bag. If I couldn't shoot better than 7" groups from a rest, I would quit shooting.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Thanks for the advice. I was not expecting to pick it up and be an expert at it quickly. It is a totally different type of firearm then my revolvers and auto's so I expected it will take a while to figure out.

You guys have given me some great tips. Thanks a bunch. I will just keep working at it.

 

[EddieNFL]

Smoothing out the trigger on a contender is going to do nothing to fix the fact that the POI changes all the time on a contender.

I shot the same gun, same load for years. I had two sets of sight adjustments in my log book; one for sunny days and one for cloudy.

I've owned four different (original) Contender frames and probably 10 or so different barrels. Never had a problem with shifting POI. Maybe I, along with every Contender shooter I know (multi-dozens) and almost everyone posting here, just got lucky.

 

[ocharry]

i can tell you that they are VERY barrel pressure sensitive

i have one i chased around for a year and a half,, sent it back to Thompson,,they said they couldn't find anything wrong,,,so i got to really looking at it while i was putting it back together,,and hmm,,, the forearm had some unusual impressions(wood) in the barrel channel,,the light bulb came on,,i knew this and hadn't bothered to check or look at it

i got out the big rasp and rat tail and went to work relieving those spots,, now only pressure points are the lugs where the screws hold the forearm on,,,it settled into .750 groups @ 100 with loads i worked up for it

before it would cold barrel 4" high every time,,and as the barrel warmed it would split that and be 2" high,,,after 6 shots it was impossible to predict what it would do,,8"low 8 o'clock,,,4"out 3 o'clock,,,o and if you cleaned the barrel,,,all bets were off,,it could be anywhere from a cold barrel

i think they will shoot,,,hmmmm,, maybe not as good as some other guns,,maybe better than some

they are definitely finicky

just make sure the forearm isn't touching the barrel OR the frame where it overlaps,,,kinda free floating,,, you will get there

my .02 YMMV

ocharry

 

[flipajig]

the first TGT was with factory ammo the second TGT was with my hand loads both are under a inch at 100 yds..
this was done with a 7-30 waters 15" Bullberry barrel wever scope off a rest.

 

[PO2Hammer]

the first TGT was with factory ammo the second TGT was with my hand loads both are under a inch at 100 yds..
this was done with a 7-30 waters 15" Bullberry barrel wever scope off a rest.

According to some people, that's just impossible!

 

[Buck Snort]

Are people having similar problems with the Encore?

 

[cfullgraf]

Are people having similar problems with the Encore?

I bought an Encore rifle three or four years ago and was disappointed in its performance at first. Nothing near as good as my 1980s vintage Contenders.

The Encore got better with some trigger work but it is sensitive to pressure on the fore end even with a Bullberry 6.5x54 MS barrel and one of their special fore ends. Before the trigger work, I was getting 2" 5 shot groups. After the trigger work the 5 shot groups were around 1" to 1.25". I also have a Thompson 243 Win barrel but have not shot it since the trigger work was completed.