Conundrum

[uncle.45]

I posted earlier about Missouri Bullets, and went to 'my room' to load a box. Now I have problems I've never experienced before.
200gr LSWC.452 to .453"
5.0gr HP-38
CCI L.P. Primers
New CBC brass
1.260 COL
.472 'crimp'
Finished rounds will not drop in my Dillon case gage more than 2/3rds of the way. I put them in backwards, and they easily fall in all the way.
They plunk well in my SW1911,(loose chamber) but don't fit in my S&W 625JM.
I looked closely for bullet shavings, but there weren't any.
The bullets are seating a little crooked. The bulge at the bullet base is uneven. I am going to get the Dillon SWC Seating Stem asap.
Just behind the crimp the cases measure .474-.475.. Is slightly crooked bullet seating causing the cases to be larger than they should be?
While I wait for your insight I am going to swap seating stems, and see what changes I get. Maybe the stem I fitted to the Precision Bullets SWCs I was using doesn't like the Missouri Bullets.
Thanks for your help. I rarely need it, but when I do, you gents always come through.

 

[Cheesemaker]

We are talking a few thousandths here...

I assume we are talking about 45 ACP

Your SW1911 = loose
Your 625JM = not so loose
Crooked cases after seating/crimping.
SW is ok, 625 not...
Ever had issues before?
Moon clips OK - assume the 625 uses them. Try others?
Try another bullet?
Sounds like your 625 is tiiiiight.Not necessarily a bad thing.

Let us know.

 

[uncle.45]

Cheesemaker,
I have never had these issues before.
The only change was the brand of bullets.

 

[uncle.45]

That was it!
I changed to the seating stem for round nose bullets, and the finished rounds all check correctly.
They plunk freely in both guns and the case gage.
Now I can make a few to shoot while I wait for the UniqueTek SWC Seating Stem to arrive next week.

 

[uncle.45]

I was wrong last night. The issue was not fixed by the seating stem, but I may have a handle on it now. See if you agree.
I measured the CBC cases before/after sizing.
They start at ~.442" ID, and sized they are ~.439" ID.
Since many of these bullets measure ~.453" is this sizing die too small? .014" seems really excessive. Is it?
When I used Precision Bullets .4515" bullets I had 100% success for 10,000 rounds. After changing to a larger diameter bullet, I am now getting about 35%.
Do any of you think it would be good to lap out the sizing ring lightly?
I would probably try going just .002" -.003" at a time until I got a better bullet fit, and useable finished rounds.
What say you, Gents?

 

[rfwobbly]

You are thinking about this the wrong way. 'Yes', the Sizing Die under-sizes the cartridge brass. This is becasue it doesn't know the wall thickness of your brass. And note that the Sizing Die only works on the exterior of the brass.

It's the Expander that sets the exact inside diameter in preparation for the seating of the bullet. On Dillon equipment, the Expander is part of the Powder Funnel. So what you need is an +0.002" oversize Powder Funnel. Call Dillon CS and get one on order.

Hope this helps.

 

[uncle.45]

Copy that, wobbly!!
I knew there had to be a direct fix!
In my experience with Dillon, it wouldn't surprise me if they sent me one free.
I will call them in the morning.
THANK YOU!

 

[rfwobbly]

Happy to help.

Additionally, if you want your SWC bullets to seat straight, then you need a Seating Stem that pushes solely on the shoulder of the bullet as shown in the cartoon below. In my experience, the seater Dillon provides pushes on the meplat. That was hopefully the difference in the UniqueTech seating stem, but having never seen one I don't know.

 

[Ireload2]

Check your ammo before you load a lot of it.
In this case use thinner cases or smaller bullets.

Get a mike or caliper and check your ammo at the start of the lot.

Your problem is common with the .38-55 rifle round. When the ammo is too fat by about .001 or so so shooters run the loaded rounds a little ways into a sizing die to squeeze down the round.

 

[Walkalong]

I would probably try going just .002" -.003" at a time until I got a better bullet fit, and useable finished rounds.
What say you, Gents?

rfwobbly already has you on the right track, but .003 would ruin the sizer. .003 is a lot in the sizer world.

 

[uncle.45]

Thanks all!
The seating stem I have has been modified to fit the Precision Bullets SWCs, but it doesn't like the Missouri Bullets SWCs.
Instead of further modifying it, I am ordering the UniqueTek part because it claims to fit SWCs as in the drawing.
Thanks again!

 

[Walkalong]

I really like those Precision 200 Gr SWCs. Any reason you switched?

 

[uncle.45]

I liked them pretty well.
I switched because of the rave reviews on the forums.
I think if/when I get these MBC bullets to seat right I will like them a lot! Otherwise, I will limp through this 1000 of them, and go back to Precision Bullets.

 

[uncle.45]

At last, I am on the right track.
I kept coming back to the fact that bullets seating crooked was the base of this issue.
I took out the seating stem, and honed/lapped it til it fit the new bullets better.
Now instead of ~30%, ~80% of loaded rounds pass the case gage.
I think instead of messing with this stem further, I will order the UniqueTek SWC Seating stem for the SDB.
I'll let you know how it works asap.
Thanks, Guys!

 

[uncle.45]

UPDATE!!
I got the UniqueTek SWC seating stem, and it is working great!
Just finished 200 rounds, and they ALL passed the case gage.
Being an OCD 'measurer', I have been checking the 'crimp' and COL constantly.
The crimps measure the same as always at .4515"-.4525". That's satisfactory.
The COL used to vary as much as +/- .0005", but with a goal of 1.260" they now stay between 1.2590" and 1.2615".
That suits my OCD-ness a lot better!
The UniqueTek SWC seating stem seats SWCs straighter, and much more consistently.
Happy, Happy!!

 

[Walkalong]

The COL used to vary as much as +/- .0005",

.005?

The UniqueTek SWC seating stem seats SWCs straighter, and much more consistently.
Happy, Happy!!

Excellent!

 

[thomas15]

I liked them pretty well.
I switched because of the rave reviews on the forums.
I think if/when I get these MBC bullets to seat right I will like them a lot! Otherwise, I will limp through this 1000 of them, and go back to Precision Bullets.

In many ways some of us act as if we are on a sales commission with certain retail outfits. I'm not the measure of all things but I do shoot quite a bit, having attended roughly 20 steel matches so far this year and have another 20+ on the calendar. This to say that I know a bunch of fellow shooters that shoot a bunch of handloads. Most of them use one of several makes of bullets and gunpowders, Rarely do the bullets we use get mentioned here. The powders more so but still not that often.

I have purchased several things because of the rave reviews. Some work for my applications some do not. I have literally 50,000 pieces of 9mm brass. Of those 50,000, about 12K are of a particular headstamp that works well in my most used application. At this point in the season, I have sent about 4500 rounds of 9mm down range and have approx. 1200 rounds ready to go. Every single one of those rounds uses the same brass headstamp, powder/charge weight, bullet and primer, all seated to the same depth and using the same crimp. I have had zero field failures so far. But that's juts me, a piker of sorts.

 

[uncle.45]

thomas,
I like OCD-type consistency in my reloads.
The fact that they are a (tiny) bit larger may make them shoot more accurately and cleaner. I think the HiTek2 coating will be a plus also. The coating on the previous bullets was messy.
If these perform as well as they now load, I will use them exclusively.

I also have many thousands of brass, but use 3,000 or so pieces of my favorite headstamp most of the time. I also use the same primer/powder/charge almost all the time.

Good luck in your competitions!

 

[reddog81]

Using a more appropriate expanding die will also work or adjusting the current die to give more flare might work. The use of a Lyman M style die will allow you to place the bullets slightly deeper into the case and sit them straight to start the seating process. Not enough flare on the case mouth allows the bullets to start off cockeyed and the loaded round will be slightly off kilter.

I use Lee seating dies for just about every type of bullet out there - Wadcutter, RN, SWC, RNFP, etc without any issues, however I use RCBS steel sizing dies and Lyman M dies for the expanding for most handgun rounds.

 

[uncle.45]

Ron,
You are on the right track.
I am using Dillon dies, and after adding 1/4 turn on the expander, these bullets seat great!
Thanks!