Convicted felons owning guns

Should convicted felons be allowed to own Firearms?

  • Yes

    Votes: 203 41.4%
  • No

    Votes: 287 58.6%

  • Total voters
    490
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
I voted yes but we really needed another option. Seems people don't need to be so quick to judge because they have been convicted of a felony. You can be convicted of a felony for walking on a railroad track because of Federal authority.

If a person has done the time and completed any other punishments then they should have their rights renewed.
 
For defining a felony, a felony should be:

a) violent crimes: murder, rape, molestations, arson, robbery, assaults.

I don't consider a voluntary fight (through obvious instigation/antagonization) as something felony worthy....I do consider someone coming out of the blue and sucker-punching someone as felony material however.

Basically a Felony should imply that this person is a danger to those around the individual.

Today, even "victimless" crimes end up being felonies...and that's pretty messed up.
 
MY STORY, YES I AM A FELON!

well I am a convicted felon.....20+ years ago(age 18) did stupid kid stuff and owned up to it. After my parole (so maybe 2 years later) ALL my rights were restored(including firearms)I was issues a CWP in WA State as my felony was excluded. I carried from then on.

In 1996 I went to renew my permit, I was told the law had changed and I now needed a "certificate of rehabilitation" which at that time did not exist (gotta love the law makers). I tried my darnedest to get it taken care of but no luck, i felt like a criminal all over again ........ and I had done NOTHING to loose my rights which had been restored.

Few years went by, I still kept my guns.

OK, still pissed, tried some lawyers, wanted 5-10K and said it was doubtful.

Finally found a guy on the internet that does just what I wanted, paid him $700, court $120, 2 weeks later my firearms rights were again restored, issues a CPL in WA, went to buy gun, was denied, store treated my like crap, I told them the story they said IMPOSSIBLE. So a call to NICS, paperwork sent ..... 3 weeks latter I get an "award" like you would give your 4th grader telling the store my rights were restored. The store said "BS" you made that!! I just laughed and said call NICS ...... they did ..... I was good to go. I then told them to eff off, will never buy a firearm from them again! And I kept my word, 500K worth of guns later ....... methinks they made a mistake ;)

Short version, I screwed up, paid the price for years, but am more than an upstanding citizen, my list of past clients is pretty impressive. I am not ashamed of my past at all, it made my a better person, I tell my story often.

So up I AM still a felon, but with all my rights .... and ya wont believe what's going to happen in a few months :D

Oh and BTW, I own the ACTUAL gun (S&W 686) that the deputy that arrested me that night carried, HIS OWN GUN! How it came to me was just amazing .... karma is funny stuff ;)
 
Landpimp ---------- GOOD FOR YOU !!!! Am very glad to hear how you changed your life for the better !!!! SOME PEOPLE on here would still burn you at the stake.
SHAME ON THEM !!!!
 
Oh I can also almost promise everyone here has done something in their past that would/could have landed them in the can.......some get caught some don't. Me, I just owned up to it like a man (albeit a stupid young man) could have prolly gotten out of it

we are not Saints and if you think you are think REAL hard back at your life.
 
cassandrasdaddy, I think this is a "does not compute" type of conversation. For me anyway. I'm not saying to automatically extend sentences for people already in the clink, I'm saying to consider the individual's likelihood of committing a crime when released after a given amount of time and take that into account during sentencing. If someone is expected to reoffend upon release, it makes zero sense to give them a short sentence.

I am not saying that a) there is a magic way to tell when someone will reoffend 100% of the time; I am saying that there IS a better way to figure it than we're ding it now, or the crime rate would be lower, because we would have longer sentences for people who are part of a group of criminals who are likely to reoffend. I am also not saying that b) CURRENT people, who have a sentence, should be retried or given long sentences due to a blanket decision...that would be wrong...but I do think that sentencing in general, as well as a policy of "punishing" for nonviolent crimes, is the root problem here.
 
cassandrasdaddy, I think this is a "does not compute" type of conversation. For me anyway. I'm not saying to automatically extend sentences for people already in the clink, I'm saying to consider the individual's likelihood of committing a crime when released after a given amount of time and take that into account during sentencing. If someone is expected to reoffend upon release, it makes zero sense to give them a short sentence.

How do you do that?

I've spoken to many a judge and lawyer about that subject, and they all go into long explanations about "presentencing reports."

But when I ask, "What's your feedback? How do you know that your sentencing decision was right?" Their nervous systems seem to shut down. When I suggest a judge ought to pay a penalty for a wrong sentence (just as a businessman does for a wrong business decision), they get red in the face.

So how can we know the individual's likelihood of committing a crime when released? How can we determine what the sentence should be? And how can we have feedback so we can tell when a sentence was wrong? And what sanctions should apply to a judge who makes too many wrong sentences?
 
???????????

so you live in control state and you have a gun.you are found with it and convicted.are you dangerous should you be marked for life.should you be left with out protection for you and your family.
you belong to a club and they have a fund raiser.they have a raffle and sell tickets.you get arrested because you dont have a license to have a raffle.you are now a felon.
the heck with the 14/15 amendment.
 
Hi Vern,

And how can we have feedback so we can tell when a sentence was wrong? And what sanctions should apply to a judge who makes too many wrong sentences?

As you well know, the FBI keeps statistics on re-offending by type of offense. I believe the stats are included on the fbi.gov website. It's an interesting read all told. To avoid risk of being declared a 'judge basher' I won't recommend any consequence for a judge not doing their job correctly.
 
As you well know, the FBI keeps statistics on re-offending by type of offense. I believe the stats are included on the fbi.gov website.
Would you agree that every re-offense is a failure to sentence the offender correctly the first time?

Now, some offenses carry a maximum sentence too short for some offenders. And you can't expect 100% from any system or judge. But if you look at the rate of recidivism, I think we both agree something is broken.
It's an interesting read all told. To avoid risk of being declared a 'judge basher' I won't recommend any consequence for a judge not doing their job correctly.
If there are no consequences, there is no accountability, and hence no true feedback. And that's what's broken.

Consider this: Judge Brown gives Sam Smith a light sentence for a violent crime. Soon Sam Smith is out and brutally rapes and murders Sally Jones. Sally has paid the price for Judge Brown's mistake -- and Judge Brown gets off scot-free.
 
Consider this: Judge Brown gives Sam Smith a light sentence for a violent crime. Soon Sam Smith is out and brutally rapes and murders Sally Jones. Sally has paid the price for Judge Brown's mistake -- and Judge Brown gets off scot-free.

The reverse situation is too long of a sentence for a minor crime. While I agree in accountability for one's actions, let me explain the result:

Prisons in many portions of the nation are controlled by prison gangs. California is known to have some of the worst (so bad they have started moving some of them to other states just to break up the sophisticated organized gangs), but they exist to some extent most places.
Most of the populations are divided along racial lines, regardless of whether a particular individual is racist.
They are then further subdivided by prison gangs which act as organized crime, often times running the prisons.
They put hits out on individuals who violate ethics or interfere including guards and other prisoners, and provide support to each other.

Prison is full of violent predators, but the deterrent of the most violent form of retaliation (often times a stabbing) keeps many of thier predatory ambitions in check.
So they target members who are not aligned with one of the organized prison gangs, both for things like personal property gain, and to 'earn thier stripes' or show how tough they are challenging or victimizing them.
As a result the loner does not stand a chance. No matter how tough they are.
They either align themselves with one of the gangs, or thier stay will be very unpleasant. They will actually be even more likely to be involved in fights, decreasing thier good time, increasing thier chance of receiving new charges, and hurting thier chances for parole.
(So those who actually try to avoid the negative gang culture will appear much worse to a parole board than those who embrace it, because they will be fighting more and have more disciplinary action taken against them.)


So they have to be a part of those groups which defend eachother, and retaliate (yet another criminal offensive action) against those who victimize one of thier group.
What this means is someone that goes in needs to befriend and be ready to mutually defend criminals who have long ago committed themselves to a life of crime. Criminals that are proud of thier criminal accomplishments, use drugs on a regular basis, and promote and glamorize negative subcultures they believe in.
Ironically members of those violent organized groups will have fewer altercations overall, and so are more inclined to get out on parole. However they also need to get into violent altercations in defense of others of the group when necessary, even when it may have been a loudmouthed idiot of thier group which caused a problem which could have been avoided. They are also part of a group that commits stabbings and maybe even murders in an organized manner on occasion in retaliation.
Even the guards often work on a system of violent excessive (and illegal) retaliation because that is the only thing such violent predatory criminals listen to in order to deter future victimization of other guards.


This means the longer someone is in there, the more they are going to become like the 'friends' who surround them.
They may go in a "kid" who made a mistake but otherwise little different from many other kids, but will likely come out little different than the sum of the crowd in prison.
If they go into prison for many years in thier teens or 20s, and then spend many formative years in prison, in thier 30-40s they are people who have known nothing besides that lifestyle. They will be way behind in career opportunities, behind in experience in normal social relations, and used to socializing within a negative subculture, and otherwise be out of place in society.
Permanently branded on top of that, and it should come as no surprise they revert to criminal activity.

In fact if you took an innocent man wrongly put him in prison for 10-20 years, and compared them to a guilty person who made a mistake but is otherwise little different from many people you know, with the guilty one just on thier way to prison, the guilty one would probably be a better person.

That innocent man would have became more similar to the people surrounding them all those years, while the guilty one would likely not yet be that different from people you already know.
All those people released after many years when DNA evidence or something set them free proving thier innocence...Probably not who you would want as a neighbor. They may have been innocent, but have most likely become little different than all those they lived with for many years.

Prison manufactures career criminals, so the longer the sentence you give, the more you insure they remain criminals for the rest of thier life.

What is the solution? I didn't say I had a solution. People need to be held accountable for thier actions and receive just punishment. I am merely pointing out long sentences actually have an impact you may have overlooked.
Longer sentences actually lead to even higher rates of repeat offenders and more sophisticated (they all teach eachother in prison what worked and what didn't work) and dangerous criminals when they get out.

Yet there is also accountability for one's actions, and punishment for wrongdoing. So what may be the most effective strategy at reducing recidivism may not be enough punishment for the crime committed. Someone who is a victim of a serious violent crime does not care if the person who victimized them becomes the best citizen in the world shortly afterwards and received minimal punishment. Justice is not served.
There is a more to consider than merely the statistical results of different courses of action.
That is an entirely different topic.




The main issue is not the criminals themselves, but the result of giving the government the power to brand anyone unsuitable for rights for life by charging them with a crime. A crime that may not even be serious enough to result in almost any time behind bars when normally prosecuted. If you cannot see the ease with which that can be exploited to remove or reduce the prevalence of rights the government is not fond of, I don't know what to tell you. I am sure the Brady Campaign would be very happy if most people in the nation were a felon for something minor, and they are not the only ones.
 
Last edited:
and Judge Brown gets off scot-free.

Welcome to the end result of 200 plus years of American justice. But as long as the state gives them a pass such accountability is a pipe dream. Once again, the justice system is not designed for individual justice. Only to maintain the power of the state. I'm told at one time LE and the courts were held to maintain an illusion of justice. I'm also told that Mr Nixon wounded that illusion and Mr Clinton finally put it out of it's misery.

As for your interpretation of the statistics... I spread the blame out a lot further than just the courts. But again, to avoid scathing private messages of being a 'justice basher' I'll refrain from being specific.
 
The solution is Freedom. There is no safe , secure way out of this . We cannot have it both ways. Once you have served your sentence; the American way was you came out a freeman with a fresh start. Otherwise you are pinning a Scarlet Letter on whomever.
But about 58% of the poll has been conditioned to believe otherwise without consideration to the fact that this was not the American way until recently.
You can trace back revoking a persons RKBA's along with other Rights, to a time frame when a lot of other government law and bureaucracy was being invented.
 
There are a lot of interesting stories here and compelling arguments. But we deal with a bureaucracy here in this country. They can't do the simplest of things like count how many people live in this country, if you pull up your local census, it probably is ten years old. There would have to be a bureau set up to monitor each individual case in depth. There is no way we have the money to set up something like what would be needed, at this point in time. There are too many repeat offenders out there for any person in power to recommend such legislation in this political environment. What we need is an overhaul of the way things are run in the first place. If the gangs keep growing we will soon run out of places to house them, and privatizing the prison system is just going to make it a better business to get into. So restoring the rights of a felon is just not likely to be of concern to anyone because there is nothing in it for the legislators, it will be an unpopular piece of legislation to even bring up, and no Congressman or Senator in their right mind is going to do anything to make waves especially now in this political climate.
 
Welcome to the end result of 200 plus years of American justice. But as long as the state gives them a pass such accountability is a pipe dream. Once again, the justice system is not designed for individual justice. Only to maintain the power of the state. I'm told at one time LE and the courts were held to maintain an illusion of justice. I'm also told that Mr Nixon wounded that illusion and Mr Clinton finally put it out of it's misery.
It seems to me that a lot of officials and government employees want power, but not responsibility. We, the people should make sure power and responsibility are included in the same package.

To public officials who say, "Well, I shouldn't have to pay a penalty for the outcome of my actions and decisions" I say, "Then stop cashing your paycheck."
 
So if a guy shot a a couple of folks, or beat his wife up and held up a bank, ten years ago , it's ok that he get's to have all the guns he wants, after he gets out out of jail. Because we should have no laws or rules? And this makes sense to you how? Please don't quote the second to me, thats for law abiding citizens, not killers gang bangers, and drug dealers.
 
If a man is being attacked, he has the right to fend off that attack.

If he believes that the attack is overwhelming him, he has the right to enhance his defense.

Many people feel that he does not have the right to enhance his defense, through a very narrow and limited resource, due to arbitrary guidelines regarding the previous fortunes he's experienced in life.

It doesn't really make logical sense though.
 
Rates of recidivism are high for violent felons. If you enjoy your rights, don't commit felonies - that's pretty simple. But life isn't simple. Each case is unique. Rather than set up a two-tiered track for violent vs non-violent offenders, I think the policy of letting ex-felons petition for restoration of their rights is a good one. It is up to the ex-felon to demonstrate that he or she is able to be trusted with firearms. A judge can weigh the evidence and make a determination.
 
In Theory you may be justified with that opinion. But several times in the past a Judge has let a Lifer - out, a couple of famous cases, where the individual wrote a bestselling book or screenplay, or other such rehabilitative work, only to see that now so called rehabilitated criminal commit murder again. There are some people who are schizophrenic, or homicidal, and very good at hiding their intent from others. Kind of like the mass murderer and serial killer types that no one ever believes could have done it.
 
I would say that non violent white collar criminals should be allowed to own firearms. Income tax evasion should not be grounds for loosing the RKBA.
 
Please don't quote the second to me, thats for law abiding citizens, not killers gang bangers, and drug dealers.

Interesting, then should felons also be barred from working at newspapers, TV, radio and having access to the internet? After all, if the 2nd amendment is only for the law abiding then it stands to reason the 1st should be as well. Should felons be forced to give evidence against themselves? Have their property taken without remuneration or due process?

Next, you noted three classes of felons. Is this civil death applicable only to them or all felons? And who in our government would you trust to make the determination?
 
Not a judge that's for sure, after 12 of their peers voted them put away for life, that is where thay should stay. Just because you can paint or write a book dosen't undo the damage you did.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top