Cops gun would not go off.

Status
Not open for further replies.
"But there is no good reason the officer shouldn't have been carrying a back-up ... just in case what happened did."


I got news for you, a lot of Dept.'s will not allow their Officers to carry a backup weapon....Known in political circles as a "throw down gun". My Dept. is one example.

Secondly, a Dept. can buy a Glock 17 for under $300.00 pretty easily. All it takes is Dept. letter head. My guess is that this was the Officers personal weapon.

Brinks Armored in Dallas would not allow Sigmas to be carried due to failures in the weapon. Same with a few other Private Security Companies.


Sigma=dead good guys. I don't care how inexpensive the gun is or how accurate, or how cool....RELIABILITY IS #1 and always MUST BE in a defensive fire arm.
 
I got news for you, a lot of Dept.'s will not allow their Officers to carry a backup weapon....Known in political circles as a "throw down gun". My Dept. is one example.
Click to expand...

What's the reason behind that idiotic policy?
 
"I got news for you, a lot of Dept.'s will not allow their Officers to carry a backup weapon....Known in political circles as a "throw down gun".

One word = LIABILITY....my Dept. is paranoid about the liability involved in having a gun that is not theirs in the mix.

Some Departments also have that policy to prevent the "temptation" that an Officer might face if involved in a shooting with an unarmed person. He might decide to "arm" the now deceased perp.....no kidding....I've heard that used before.
 
I think the "trigger reset" comment in the original article is probably a red herring. The article doesn't actually say the trigger was reset, just makes a general comment about reset.

I doubt if it reset and then wouldn't fire again. Much more likely that it was out of battery due to either being pushed into the bad guy or by the bad guy grabbing it.
 
Well guys, Sigmas are fresh from the Dept. I don't know how long they have had them, around 1 year i think???? They replaced the rugers, they also just got the Mod. 94 30-30's replaced on the swat team :scrutiny: I don't know about the leagal part of a backup, but I'm sure he wanted one at that time.
Best part was the swat team, they decided not to mess around:D .
Tony
 
If he had a Ruger he could have kept pulling the trigger until the slide was back in battery then we would have a dead bad guy.


I hope the Janesville PD SWAT got the 94s with the black stocks. Everyone knows that SWAT has to be all black!! What kind of amatures do they have over in the JPD.:D
 
What's the reason behind that idiotic policy?
Click to expand...
Its the same general logic behind the AWB and most 'sensible' gun legislation. Political leaders make dumb feel-good laws, and they put pressure on their underlings in police departments to make dumb, feel-good policies.

I have always liked the 'throw down' argument. It is idiocy given verbal form.

"Yeah sarge, he had this S&W 640...yeah...huh? Whaddaya mean the S/N is recorded as belonging to me by the Ordnance Unit? Dang...he musta burglarized my house, too!"

:rolleyes:

Mike
 
Sounds like we are all assuming that something happened after the first trigger pull.

With the disconnector activated, I believe that your trigger return spring continues to work and the stiker never falls.

That's why I like the retention position for firing at arms-length distance. I'm getting well-trained to not poke my opponent's gut with my sidearm.
 
The root of the problem is that the officer thought he had to fight the perp with his gun only. A fight is a fight, weapons are just accessories. Once his gun FTF for whatever reason, while wrestling there isn't time to diagnose it, or probably grab a backup. His Sigma became a club, it's club vs screw driver. Take the opponent out by any means necessary, don't fixate on trying to get one particular type of weapon working. Gouge an eye, rip off an ear, smack a temple with your new Sigma-club...but keep fighting the threat! :eek:
 
I'm pretty sure my Glock 23 would have gone off. If not, then the odds of my 27 failing during the same incident are even more slim.

I am glad he's gonna be ok, but CARRY A BACK UP GUN!!!
 
When you're wrestling, on the ground, drawing a back-up gun is not always possible.


As for many departments disallowing the use of a BUG because it could be used as a BUG as a "throw-down" is severely flawed logic. Most departments require the officer to document what weapon(s) they will be carrying off-duty/BUG.
 
My agency used to have a policy that classified all backups as "throwdowns". Fortunately the current Sheriff, god bless 'im, changed it. But, that was the policy for many years before he did. So shortly after the change, a buddy and I were in the squadroom discussing guns, when another Deputy walks up and asks for our advice. But the only place she's worked is here, she's not a gun enthusiast, and the entire time that was the terminology used in the policy manual. So with a completely straight face she asked "hey, can you guys help me pick out a throwdown?"

It took quite a while before either of us could stop laughing long enough to even explain it to her.
 
At that range and speed, some good empty hands techniques might be even more important than a backup gun.
 
Tactical folder, flashlight, finger to the eye, etc.. BUT when you are panicking and you think that you are going to die, sometimes you can only think that you must respond to deadly force (perceived or not) with deadly force. I am sure at the time that the only thing the officer was focusing on was being killed and trying to respond with deadly force. From what I read here, we can all armchair quarterback this to death, but I think we all know how you can get tunnel vision and not think when under deadly pressure. Sounds to me like the whistle chain saved his life. He probably would not have had time to tap rack bang since the other hand was busy keeping the BG from stabbing him. He may have been able to toss the weapon and pull a backup weapon of some kind, but I am sure that all he could see was that screwdriver heading for his face. How may times have witnesses or victims only been able to describe the "big black gun" and never the physical of the perp?

Deezul
 
Well, second strike capability is nice, but its not a panacea. For instance, you can bang on a dud round all day, it ain't gonna go off.

Mike
 
This discussion is far too constructive. To add a little spirit, it should be posted on the revolver forum.

Auto: Click, Tap, Rack, Bang.
Wheelgun: Click, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang.
 
My NRA Training Counselor (who is also the chief RO for a local municipal PD) told us a story about a detective who showed up at the dept range and tried to fire his revolver. Every shot misfired, and the RO examined gun and ammo - every primer was properly dented, and the ammo looked brand new. So the RO commented that the ammo looked brand-new, and the detective mentioned that it was several years old, but HE KEPT HIS AMMO CLEAN WITH WD-40...

Good thing for the detective that he wasn't trying to defend himself with said ammo!

I also know a cop who owned a new, unfired HK-93 and discolored the plastic on the forearm by cleaning it with WD-40... ouch...
 
So, uh, have any of us actually tested these many theories?

Reminds me of the ancient Greeks who wasted half a day arguing about how many teeth were in the mouth of a horse. Not one would step outside and actually look in a horse's mouth. :rolleyes: :neener:
 
Bluesbear: Interesting technique to break the gun loose from a BG's grip, and one that sounds simple and forceful enough to actually work. I like it...

I don't see enough info in the article to really establish what might have actually happened; typical for a media account of a hairy event.

In any event, the kind of thing that nightmares are made of.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
  • Locked
German foriegn minister a member of Red Brigades in 1970's
Replies
5
Views
649
another okie
A
D
  • Locked
(WI) Owner shoots intruder
Replies
16
Views
867
Dr.Rob
Dr.Rob
S
  • Locked
(AK) Family of man shot by pastor struggles to understand why
Replies
17
Views
2K
spacemanspiff
S
IMTHDUKE
  • Locked
A Judge with a gun trumps a crutch every time
2
Replies
40
Views
3K
Zoogster
Z
A
  • Locked
(WV) Officer justified in bringing gun to knife fight
Replies
4
Views
504
MitchSchaft
M
Back
Top