Cops shoot guy walking away in the back after pointing a cell phone at them.

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WonderNine

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Hey, the cops were all for shooting a curious and friendly family dog, so why not an unarmed human? :barf:
 
I'd have shot him.

In real time without the hindsight of frame by frame photo evaluation and believing that phone to be a weapon, which the BG clearly represented it as, you betcha I would have.

Actually, I'd have probably shot him from the get go, had I believed for a split second that the phone the BG was clearly representing as a gun was in fact a gun leveled at myself or another officer.
 
I think it's pretty obvious they could have used non-lethal force to subdue him. I counted at least 7 times they shot him in the back. It was obvious that wasn't a firearm in his hand.

On the other hand, they guy was a complete dumbass to run from the cops like that. What was he thinking? In some ways I want to say he deserved it, because only a complete idiot would get into a stupid car chase like that.

However, that still doesn't justify the cops, who are supposed to take the legal and moral high ground, shooting him in the back when they didn't need to.

But that's Louisiana for you. Don't screw with the cops there (or here in Texas!). It's not good for your health.
 
I understand what you're saying, I mean there were 3 big cops there twice as big as this guy and they had batons and pepper spray.
 
It seems like a good place for a taser, but they probably didn't have one. I WANT to stand up for this guy, but I'm just not able to do it. What does anyone think is going to happen if an officer gives you a clear command and you don't follow it?

(And no, for all you Hypothetical Harries out there, obviously if a corrupt cop gives you an order to "hold this gun and lay down on the pavement" while pulling on gloves, then you might consider resisting. But when a cop tells me to stand still, sit down, etc, I'll do it.)
 
Too bad a citizen would get in big trouble for shooting a perp pointing a cell phone at him. :rolleyes:
 
[SS JBT] Drop the phone and get on the ground ! I SAID DROP THE F @^%#$N' PHONE AND GET ON THE GROUND !!!!!
BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM in the back no less [/SS JBT]:rolleyes:

edited for : a bit extreme I know, criminals ain't known for thier smarts.
 
But if they truly thought it was a gun - then why would you require them to spray him? I can't watch the video (crappy PC), but the still photos showed he clearing took a firing stance and leveled something at the officers. The time between the first and last still photo is only 9 seconds. Also, it appears (but I could be wrong - no sound with still photos) that one officer was ducking thinking he was about to be shot by the suspect when the other officer fired to defend him. "Shot in the back" always sounds bad - it implies the person shot wasn't a threat. In this pic, both officers look to be in immediate danger (IF he really had a gun) and the officer on the right will most likely hit the guy in the back from that angle.
22.jpg


We'd have to be there to really know what we'd have done - looking at the stills, you'd think the officer that had his hands on the suspect could have seen it was a phone - but maybe not. And what's with shoving the gun in his face - they don't teach that in training. But once the suspect ran a little and spun back around, he COULD have pulled a gun from his coat.

Bottom line - don't act like you're shooting at the police and you won't get shot (usually).
Just my .02,
CR
 
The cop that shoved the gun in his face seemed scared. He should have knocked the guy to the ground. I think that's what led to the shooting and death of the perp (along with the deceased badguy's extreme stupidity).
 
I also can't watch the video (also because of a crappy computer), but from the stills that shooting looked rather justified.

if, after a chase (may or may not have been an intense one; I can't say), the guy gets out and pulls something on you, holding it very much like a gun (and which looks quite like one in some of the pictures ... espeically if you're not looking at them up close), training kicks in.

and that's what it was, training. a bad guy pointed something at them in a gun like manner, and their training said "shoot him" so they did. when under pressure, you react how you're trained, not how you ideally expect to.

also, as pointed out in the GT thread, how do we know it wasn't something similar to this, a cell-phone gun AOW? so for all we know, it could have been a gun. add to it the stress and the threatening manner in which he presented it, and you have a justified homicide.

btw, does it look like his pants are falling down, and he's holding them up?
 
Yeah, sitting here at my desk, it looks questionable, it looks like they should have been able to figure out that it was only a cell phone, and I wonder why it took so long for the cop to start shooting, after the guy had pointed it at them twice.

On the street? I'd have shot him too. Who knows what went thorugh the cop's minds and what they saw but them. I've got no sympathy for people who resist and get shot. Cause and effect. That guy had to know that his actions were likely to get him shot.
 
If you could see the video, he points the phone at them at least twice, early in the exchange when they are all out of the car. The cops wait to shoot him until he is walking away from them, his back completely towards the cops. They wait at least 5 seconds (a long time to wait when someone has something pointed at you that could be a gun) to unload on him after he points the phone at them. I think they shot him because he refused to stop. It was obvious they were directing him to stop and get on the ground.

But the cops did not fire when the perp raised his hand toward the cop in a threatening manner. They waited some seconds later, after the perp had walked another 10 feet from them, increasing his distance from the cops, when they fired.

Still, in my heart I feel like the damn perp got what he deserved. However, those cops were a little too trigger-happy. I don't like the idea of trigger-happy cops, as much as I don't like the idea of some lunatic endangering the public becuase he wants to take the cops on a car chase.
 
Looks like a justifiable shoot to me.

Nighttime.
Failure to yield.
Uncooperative suspect attempting to leave the scene on foot, thus drawing officers out into the open.
Sudden threatening gesture with an object in his hand that could be a gun.
Reasonable fear that if the suspect is permitted to escape he could pose a threat to the public or other officers.

Nothing in the law says the officers have to wait until he turns around so they can shoot him in the front.
 
voilsb, the stills don't tell the story as the video does. When the cop on the right (who knew it was a cell phone in the perps hand) starts shooting the perp has had his back to them for at least two seconds.

After the cop shoots him several times the perp turns and you see the still above, then the guy turns back around again and sort of walks away and both cops start shooting again. It's really messed up.
 
My principal interest when I posted this

Good shoot/Bad shoot in Shreveport

without comment was to see if anyone else reacted as I did without prompting.

In the first seconds of Unit 138’s tape after arriving in the parking lot we see Hudspeth in full stance. The officer on the right (Officer Right, for short) appears immediately, gun already drawn. It appears Hudspeth is aiming at the officer on the left (Officer left.) Officer Right has a view from as little as six feet of what is in Hudspeth’s hands, he has his muzzle against Hudspeth at one point so even the much bemoaned LEO marksmanship is not an issue, and Officer Right does not take the shot. Why?

If Hudspeth was a lethal threat to Officer Left while braced against the hood of the car, Officer Right should have taken the shot then and there to protect his fellow officer. If Officer Right recognized that Hudspeth had no weapon and was only posturing, it would seem to be a bad shoot. (Yes, Officer Right may have had Rule Four concerns about where his bullets went if they fully penetrated, but I truly hope he did not worry about a miss with his muzzle in contact with his target!) Either way, I think the incident should have ended before Hudspeth took his second step from the hood of the car.

Hudspeth engaged in lethally stupid behavior and his shooting does not bother me in itself. What does bother me is that the videos illustrate a training failure, and I wonder how Officer Right ranks in the trust of his fellow officers now.
 
Yeah its murder.

The guy is agitated but is walking away. They had an opprotunity to take him down with non lethal methods. Looks like the cops were pumped on adrenaline and were in the fight or flight mode.

Bad shoot. These guys need not be handling guns or dealing with
folks who run from them at 30 MPH.

I don't like hopped up crackheads with their pants pulled down either. But if I shot one that was leaving my house in that manner
you wouldn't see me for a long long time.

If this shoot is justified it will be for anyone who turns their back on a cop.
 
Whats up with all the LEO bashing? I thought this was the High Road :rolleyes:

The shooting inicident takes about 10 seconds from start to finish. We have the benifit of viewing the camera after the fact. We were not there. We did not chase the suspect. We did not know what he had in his hand. Our adrenalin was not flowing. We dont have the tunnel vision often associated with these types of encounters.

Speaking as an ex LEO, that has been in those types of situations, I would have shot him too. And I venture to say that most of you would have done the same thing had you been in the officers shoes. The video speaks for itself. All the officers see is a man who gets out of his car after a chase and points a silver object at them in a way one would hold a handgun. He is refusing to comply with there demands. He then turns toward the closest officer and threatens him with the silver object. The officer trys to push him and the object away and then backs off. At that point the other officer, perceiving a threat to his partners life, fires 2 shots wounding the suspect. The suspect then turns to walk away while still holding the silver object and still refusing to comply with the officers orders. The suspect then turns toward the officers and points said object at them in a way one would point a handgun. At that point the officers open fire and nutrilize the threat. Only then do they see its a cell phone.

Come on people, Monday morning quarterbacks are a dime a dozen. We are above that.
 
All of this cop talk still fails to convince anyone of the reason why they waited so long to start shooting if they thought their life was in danger.

Wouldn't you have started shooting right away as you said?
 
I always hold my cell phone like this:rolleyes:
1.jpg


Or like this:
21.jpg



and this:
22.jpg


It makes it easier to talk on it, than holding it up to your ear.
 
Why don't you do stills of the other 99.99% of the clip where his back is turned to the cops and they do nothing because they're quaking in their boots?

Remember cop on right starts shooting long before he even turns around (for a tenth of a second) in the bottom two stills.

This is the guy who had the gun in the perps face and his hand on the cell phone in front of the cruiser before he let him go.
 
Even if I knew it was a cell phone, as soon as he turns around, his hands are out of sight. How am I to know he didn't switch the cell for a gun? Even if I thought I knew it was a cell, and my partner started to shoot, I would think he saw something else, and then I would start shooting too.


Normal people don't point objects in the direction of the cop that just pulled them over. Normal people don't try to get away from the cop that just pulled them over. Normal people don't do these things, because they know it could get them shot.


And those who ask why they didn't start shooting right away? Most of the people on this board who carry a gun, don't want to shoot anyone. They will if forced to though. The police are the same, they don't want to shoot, and will wait as long as possible to do so.
 
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