Cost vs. platform (bolt or autoloader)

[FZ1Tom]

Been wanting to throw this one out there for a while, and this seems like a good place to do it.

I'm thinking about getting either a self-loading 7.62/.308 (eg, AR10, FAL) or simply going with a bolt action rifle in either the same or some other popular hunting caliber.

I have a couple AR's in progress, so that's not the issue.

Here's my dilemma - when you take into account that a decent autoloading rifle costs well over $1000, AND then you undoubtedly feel compelled to save up and buy a quality optic for the rifle, such as an ACOG, Eotech or the various premium scopes out there, then invest in some mags, sling, various and sundry gear, and finally ammo, you're looking at well over $2000 or even $3000!

That's just a hell of a lot of money to me.

Would anyone give me a real good reason why MOST of the time the extra outlay on an autoloader would be justified (yes I do include the 'SHTF' scenario here)?

To my way of thinking, distance=your friend....more time and all that.


And I really need to get started on hunting anyways.....haven't been since I was a kid, my grandfather never really taught me, and there's much to learn. It all takes a lot of time. Certainly just buying a gun is only the first step. I used to be into guns big time about 10 years ago, then it fell by the wayside when I got a motorcycle, then I had to pretty much start over when I went bankrupt. Anyways, I'm well versed on the basics, just don't have a lot of money to play with.

So I'm seriously thinking about a good bolt action rifle. Since I'm lazy and lighter is always better, something like a Remington Model Seven or the Winchester M70 Featherweight in .270 (I kinda like 7mm Remington Mag, but that's just sentimental preference speaking). I could probably get one for 600 give or take, and THAT would allow me to invest in a better scope than I would normally be able to get had I spent 1300-1500 in an autoloader.

Do you folks see where I'm going with this? what you think?

Thanks!

Tom

 

[eye5600]

If you buy the cheaper rifle, decide you made a mistake, sell it, and buy the more expensive rifle, how far behind are you?

 

[USSR]

Do you folks see where I'm going with this?

Not really. Sounds to me like you need to further define the intended purpose for the rifle you want to buy, as there is no similarity in what the two types of rifles you have described bring to the table.

Don

 

[waterhouse]

AND then you undoubtedly feel compelled to save up and buy a quality optic for the rifle, such as an ACOG, Eotech or the various premium scopes out there, then invest in some mags, sling, various and sundry gear, and finally ammo, you're looking at well over

Other than the mags, you'll need most of that stuff with a bolt rifle too. Most folks buy a sling, optic, ammo, and various other gear for their hunting rifles.

Would anyone give me a real good reason why MOST of the time the extra outlay on an autoloader would be justified (yes I do include the 'SHTF' scenario here)?

I'm not sure your premise is entirely valid.

The cost of many semis is higher than many bolt guns, but this is also not always the case. You can have bolt action hunting rifles cost many thousands of dollars, and you can get a remington 742 semi for less than $500.

If you want to look at "designed for" military type semi-autos, (FAL, M1A, AR10, etc.) and their prices, check out what a bolt gun that a military sniper would use will cost you.

If you are talking basic hunting bolt rifles vs. basic hunting semis, I think you'll find the prices are a lot more comparable.

 

[gdcpony]

I'm afraid I have an argument for either side. I started my shooting with bolt actions and never thought I'd want anything else. Then I wen out west and found that I could easily be a more effective hunter with a semi as the land was more open and the game (varmints) was often not alone. Coming back to OH I found a good bolt or even a single shot would suffice nicely as if you miss here, you either don't get another shot or it just sits there and lets you take another.
Though I love both, but came back to the semi autos because of the time I have to practice. I used to take LONG shots with bolt guns and loved it. I don't have that practice time anymore. For the ranges I am likely to shoot now, there is no real difference in the accuracy of the two. So I take the added firepower, speed, and handling (16" barrel) of the semi auto.

 

[FZ1Tom]

I'm in the Missouri Ozarks. For deer hunting I reckon either bolt or auto would be fine and selfloading rifles are legal provided you use 10 round mags. So 200 to 300 yards would be the longest shots likely, and more probably a lot less.

I guess what I'm trying to do is justify buying a bolt action simply because I've never owned one and need to start somewhere I've actually never owned anything but semiauto rifles, whether they be .22, 5.56, or whatever.

Likewise, I've never messed with scopes and optics except on my old Marlin 60 when I was a kid.

In a nutshell I've got a lot to learn, but ya gotta start somewhere, right?

And that somewhere happens to be that I make about 8 bucks an hour, so money is very much a factor no matter what.

Tom

 

[Art Eatman]

With the ARs, you have SHTF and casual plinking covered.

I did the gunshow table thing for some twenty-plus years. Shot lots of the trade-in rifles. Plenty of good-used bolt actions out there that are plenty accurate for hunting, and a little tweaking can most always get them into the one-MOA class or even a tad better.

Scope? "Need" is covered by any halfway-decent fixed 4X. Anything beyond that is "Want" and personal preference.

If you're going with a lightweight bolt-action, I don't recommend the '06. It doesn't do a bit better than a .308, with the short barrels common to lightweight rigs.

My old Sako 19" carbine in .243 has killed a good many deer, and a fair number of coyotes and prairie dogs. Plenty of other cartridges that are just as good. But at seven pounds, "fully dressed" it's no big load for an all-day walking hunt.

IOW, it's real easy to put together a good hunting package without spending a ton of money.

 

[WVMountainBoy]

I like a fine bolt gun. They feel more natural to me than any semi-auto. I've seen plenty of semi's that shoot far better than I'll ever be able to ring out, especially in hunting scenarios. If you want my opinion look at a medium to high quality bolt and spend the scratch on a quality optic. Its still easy to end up with 3k tied up in a bolt gun...but you can spend 1k on a bolt and probably have a gun that shoots as good as you do.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

1. First, optics choice has nothing to do with rifle choice. You can put a cheap optic ,or an expensive optic, or anywhere in between on an expensive gun, or cheap gun, or anywhere in between.

2. In general, the far superior choice for most applications, EVEN DISREGARDING INITIAL PURCHASE PRICE, for most people, is a good turnbolt. It's more reliable (far more reliable), generally more accurate, more easy to clean, more durable, and lighter & handier. 'Bout the only reason to opt for a semi-auto is one of two things: (a) SHTF, which will probably never happen, or (b) quick follow up shots while hunting, which is rarely needed, but perhaps sometimes is desirable, though a non-semi-auto repeating rifle can be pretty darned fast; almost as fast as a semi-auto.

So the answer to your question (what I think that it is) is NO, for all actual practical intents and purposes, it is NOT at all worth the extra money to run with a semi-auto, regardless of optics choice, for most people. In fact, it would be worth it to spend MORE on a turnbolt to avoid the problems of semi-autos (far far less reliable, particularly in adverse conditions of wet, mud, etc.). Having said that, that advice is for MOST people, who don't shoot their guns a LOT (unlike many of us on here). If you have a semi-auto and you've put hundreds upon hundreds or thousands of rounds through it, and KNOW that it's going to be reliable under X conditions (a certain ammo type, certain adjustable gas valve setting, etc.) then it becomes reliable ENOUGH to be satisfactory, and you just MIGHT need that second rapid follow-up shot, so why not.

But bottom line is that people (including me) spend the extra for the semi-auto even when it's probably detrimental to actual utility, just simply because of the "cool factor", as well as SHTF imagined daydream scenarios.

But my favorite type, and that of many many people, FOR MULTIPLE VERY GOOD REASONS, is a turnbolt rifle. I have all types including pumps, levers, single shots, turnbolts, and semi-autos, but I have more turnbolts than anything. It's just very hard to beat their ease of maintenance, accuracy, lightness, low initial purchase cost, resistance to catastrophic failure/ability to hotrod handloads, aesthetic beauty, etc.