Could AR popularity and sales getting low

Status
Not open for further replies.
Plenty of old timers (ranchers, hunters, varmint shooters) in my town make fun of "evil black rifles"...even those of a conservative bent. When I explain that the 2nd Amendment ain't about hunting and the current interest in ARs/AKs is political, they just give me a look like deer in the headlights.

The thought apparently has never crossed their collective minds as to why "those guns" would have any appeal to anyone.

Trivia question: Who said, "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."?

M
 
Last edited:
Your currency is depreciating faster than your firearms and/ or ammo over time. Hard goods will get scarcer and currency will be worthless; if you want it, buy it - the hard goods are moving toward invaluable and the currency is moving toward worthless - open your eyes and see what you are looking at - buy the stuff if you want it, the worry about the cost of it is laughable.
 
Your currency is depreciating faster than your firearms and/ or ammo over time. Hard goods will get scarcer and currency will be worthless; if you want it, buy it - the hard goods are moving toward invaluable and the currency is moving toward worthless - open your eyes and see what you are looking at - buy the stuff if you want it, the worry about the cost of it is laughable.

Wow! Just wow.
 
Bill Ruger has been dead long enough that one stupid comment he made in the mid-90's doesn't really matter anymore.
 
Bill Ruger has been dead long enough that one stupid comment he made in the mid-90's doesn't really matter anymore.

Got an LCP and a SP101, nether one holds ten rounds... but it's still a stupid comment.
 
As a longtime bolt man, I could never understand why the AR15 style rifles achieved such popularity to begin with. A local range officer here aptly noted that they "lack warmth". With all due respect, this rifle was designed for use on the battlefield, and it should stay there. Personally I would never want to carry another M16.

On the other hand, the interchangeability of the platform is efficient and it drives significant economic activity. It's gotten huge, kind of like what happened to the V-twin platform for motorcycles.

Maybe they've just gotten old, kind of like what happened in the sixth week of boot camp.
I do my best to never log in, and just read the bits of wisdom I find on this forum. But as a nerdy type I must point out the AR-15 was sold to civilians, and rejected went submitted to the military for about 5 years till Curtis LeMay shot one at a BBQ according to the TV series The Tale of the Gun.

Military build the M-16, and the Mod 40 "sniper rifle" off civilian sold arms at the time. Just had to get that off my chest. /relurks
 
Last edited:
When I see folks say things like the AR was designed for the battlefield it makes me chuckle. Like when President Obama calls them a weapon of war that doesn't belong on our streets, or Bill O'Reilly calls it a heavy caliber rifle only suited for killing people. The opposite is true.

* Armalite sold the AR-15 to Colt. Colt sold it to the military which was designate the M16. Colt made a civilian version and gave it the AR-15 name. So the AR-15 is specifically designed for civilian use, was never designed for the battlefield, is completely unsuited for military use, and isn't commonly found on our streets (I suspect it's too big and too expensive for many to tote down Main Street).

* The 5.56X45mm NATO (.223 Remington) was adopted for use by the military not because it is a heavy caliber bullet, but because it is a LIGHT caliber bullet (far less powerful than the .308 it replaced). They switched to it because it is smaller and lighter so soldiers can carry more of them (DUH, Bill).

* In the civilian world the 5.56 NATO is called a .223 Remington and is mainly intended for varmint hunting. It is also now commonly used for hunting deer, although many feel that it is too light for that purpose.

The whole idea that there is a separation between military and civilian guns is facetious. Other than the restriction against fully auto rifles, there has always been a cross over between military and civilian weapons, and often the civilian weapons have been superior (take for example the militias' use of the rifle in the American Revolution when the army used muskets). The bolt action rifle came from Germany's Mauser. The 1903 Springfield, as well as the 30-06 that it shot, were hugely popular for conversion to hunting rifles after the war and developed into the most popular hunting rifle of all time. The CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) was sponsored by the government to promote public shooting by providing surplus military rifles, such as the M1 Garands and M1 Carbines. The most popular handgun of all time came from the military's 1911. It might be difficult to think of a popular civilian rifle or handgun that does not have a military component. In fact I suspect that if we build a wall between civilian and military weapons it is the military that would suffer more.
 
You can say that again, grizzly. ;)

But Hollywood wants the public to think every gangbanger & street thug is running around with full auto M16s and these ARs look just like them so they must be evil too.

If an antigunnut asks "why do civilians need 30 round magazines?", then I answer "for the same reason cops do". They are standard anyway.
 
Supply is catching demand.
That's exactly how the free enterprise system should work.
If the "free" enterprise system worked Norinco would have not been banned and we would have billions of 22 rounds and every type of gun available but the govt along with gun and ammo makers got rid of Norinco because they do not believe in competition and all big companies pay the govt to destroy competition in out "free" (for the connected) enterprise system
 
The old saw about the Militia's rifles doesn't hold true too much. The organized militia's who marched to war had issued muskets - the rifle stayed home with the family to continue it's duty. Many were not heavy calibers and more suited for light game. Very few had multiple rifles laying about the house, the one was considered pretty valuable.

As for the AR 15 not having "warmth," that is usually an aesthetic consideration that avoids the reality. AR's are plenty "warm" - they operate efficiently and ergonomically, without creating a lot of difficulty. It's the civilian rifles that can be "cold," lacking that feature known as being "user friendly."

Approach a lot of field conditions, one hunter with a traditional manual action, the other with an AR, and then see which is easier to deal with. Fence? Unload both, right? Too few manual actions let you dump the ammo in one motion, and unchamber the round in another. Nope, it's a slow feeding and chambering exercise than cycles every round thru the chamber nicking up the bullet nose, and being an individual ND waiting to happen. The AR? Drop the mag and open the bolt, it holds back for the reload.

Which gives me more warm and fuzzies, emptying a gun in two motions, or jacking the action with 6 or 7 rounds feeding every time?

Warmth isn't really in the eye of the beholder, it's in the experience of the user.

Bring it home and time to clean it? I don't care if you carried it in a down pour, the AR only needs a quick wipe down with an oily rag and maybe a patch in the barrel IF you don't have a nitrided one. The manual action one? Get the screwdrivers out for a prolonged session of difficult instructions. Some guns like the Win 94 aren't meant to be thoroughly disassembled in 35 seconds and easily cleaned. Which explains why they have horrible bores and generally get junked from lack of maintenance over the years.

I don't have to clean my AR, but if I want to, I can do it in less than 2 minutes and give it all it needs. Civilian gun designers make them harder to take apart so that gunsmiths get the business.

Nope, no warmth at all in my eyes.

Want to build one yourself on the kitchen table? Well, aside from the Ruger 10/22, you will likely need a press to get the barrel into the receiver while setting the headspace at the same time. Friendly warm procedure NOT.

The AR, you can drop in the barrel with extension into the upper of your choice, torque it enough to clear the gas tube, and move on. Takes about an hour to assemble an AR from a pile of parts. Takes expensive equipment in mass production to fit a manual action barrel. That goes for AK's, too. The designer didn't plan to refit them over decades of us, just make more.

Who's being warm and friendly about your tax dollars? The Air Force and other units still have '60's and '70s era M16's in service. No other First World country can claim that - their battle rifles get junked out or shipped off as military "aid" to third world countries. No sense letting them have the good stuff, they might need to go and settle things down.

We give our allies the right gun the first time and they fix the problems. Our boys stay home for Christmas more often because we don't have to go there. Unfortunately, we have to go to countries where the traditional, "warm" weapons are still in use.

Thanks, I will keep my cold, impersonal machine of war and continue selling off and giving away the "warm" guns that are a pain in the rear in use and upkeep. Now that I'm old enough, I don't have to keep training with my machine of war to deploy against the "warm" guns wielded by sociopaths or criminals in other countries. BUT - I do get to keep mine for protection against those who would use "warm" guns against me.

That's not to say it's all bad - I sold off the cold impersonal military pistols made of plastic and bought a nice "warm" 1911 style subcompact. Warm has a place when it's done right.
 
I was waiting for someone to make this point, Armybrat:

"Kinda cool little gun and it's well made. If it grows on me I might step up to a Colt LE6920 MP-B, just to have one. (and keep the Sport)"

Most here are treating the AR market as a zero-sum game. It's not, and the proof is in those four words in your parentheses. A huge number of rifles were sold to people who had never owned one before...and now some have decided that they are such fun to own and shoot that they might like to own more than one.

That's why the AR-15, in all its variations, is the most popular sporting rifle in the USA. And why sales will continue to grow.
 
I bought an AR-10 late last year and I regret it now. I learned all about direct impingement versus piston/rod actions. I was told by an Iraqi war veteran that as long as you keep the action "wet" the AR's are very dependable. I don't know if I like that. I should be okay as long as I don't get into a firefight any time soon. Disappointed.
 
I learned all about direct impingement versus piston/rod actions.
IIRC, a lot of guys have done quite well in firefights with AR's. I just got a 16" for HD a few months ago. What's wrong with keeping it lubed?? Keep it oiled up like any other firearm and you're good to go.

IMO, the piston thing is a problem looking for a solution. I've shot my Bushmaster AR thousands of rounds and never had a hiccup. It's a Varminter, and I took it on a prairie dog hunt last fall. Went thru hundreds and hundreds of rounds every day. Never cleaned it or touched it once.

Anybody that thinks a decent AR won't function needs to spend more time shooting and less time reading internet BS.
 
Last edited:
I was told by an Iraqi war veteran that as long as you keep the action "wet" the AR's are very dependable. I don't know if I like that.
The Russian military manual for AK's says to keep them well lubed in adverse conditions, too.

http://www.box.net/shared/cu2djae1zb

50. USE OF THE AUTOMATIC RIFLE IN AREAS WITH HIGH TEMPERATURES AND SANDY TERRAIN

In training exercises, during matches and in combat in sandy terrain, it is necessary to adopt all measures for protecting the rifle and ammunition from dust.

During extensive use of the rifle in dusty terrain, the bolt and the guides in the receiver should be oiled frequently through the opening for the magazine and ejection port; the rifle need not be disassembled for this operation. Before reloading the rifle after each oiling, the functioning of the firing and trigger mechanism should be checked by pulling the operating rod to the rear and releasing it several times. In such dusty terrain, the opening in the receiver through which the magazine is inserted into the rifle should be uncovered only when changing magazines and during the period lubrication mentioned above. In combat, the slot for the cocking handle should be covered during lulls in fire by means of the selector cover plate, i.e., by setting the rifle on safety.

The rifle should be cleaned and lubricated after each extensive use. Special care should be taken in cleaning and oiling the working surfaces of the trigger and firing mechanism, bolt, operating rod, extractor, gas tube and magazine.

In combat, lack of time may make it permissible to fire the rifle without oiling it, but not without wiping the dust off all the parts. The rifle must be thoroughly cleaned and oiled at the first opportunity.
The AK doctrine is not much different from the advice of those who have successfully run AR's for thousands and thousands of rounds without cleaning---lubricate it as you go.
 
I bought an AR-10 late last year and I regret it now. I learned all about direct impingement versus piston/rod actions. I was told by an Iraqi war veteran that as long as you keep the action "wet" the AR's are very dependable. I don't know if I like that. I should be okay as long as I don't get into a firefight any time soon. Disappointed.

Are you saying you are disappointed in the AR DI design based on your experiences with your AR-10, or based on what you've heard/read about it?

If it is your personal experiences, then what are they? Are they design-related or manufacture-related with your specific rifle?
 
Bill Ruger has been dead long enough that one stupid comment he made in the mid-90's doesn't really matter anymore.
The comment he made did and does matter because we have been dealing with mag limitations since he said it right up to present times
 
I didn't need to take the plunge, but just remember gang.... a few more votes and O-man would have got his assault weapon ban, and then we'd all be singing a different tune....

There still appears to be a shortage on some of the more boutique AR components.
 
If you still have not jumped on the AR15 bandwagon, now is the perfect time. Everything is cheap and available again.

Remember the panic last year? AR's selling for $2k, when they normally cost $800-1k...
 
If gun companies want to stay a float they need to start offering innovative products. You can only sell so many AR-15s, 1911s and polymer pistols. IMO they are all highly saturated products but the AR-15 is getting ridiculous. Even at my local Wal-Mart, half the guns for sale are AR-15s. These are products that basically last multiple lifetimes so it is not like they are going to wear out. Plus I have my serious doubts that the majority of them even get shot on a regular basis.

I never bought one although I've thought about it plenty of times. Seems like everyone has 1 or 5. My intro to rifles back in the 60's was 30 cal. Everything was either 30 cal. or 7mm. All of the hot 22's were varmint or gopher calibers. Ballistics don't change that much. There is some new bullet technology but the same old powder is still around. The AR is a great design but you have to ask yourself why the military turned away from it when they spec'd a new rifle. You also have to ask yourself why the AK-47 became the worlds de facto assuault rifle. I think we all know the answers.

The new rifle (7.62) is the MK-14 or an improved M-14. They called it a designated marksman rifle (DMR) so they could get it into service and test it. It won't be long before it replaces the M-16 and your average troop can engage his foe at 600 meters like in the old days. What happens to all of those AR's when companies start marketing MK-14's or some variant to the public?

Will the M15 become the 21st century M1.
 
Last edited:
Ballistics don't change that much.
Nope, they don't and if you'd actually look at some ballistics data rather than making assumptions you'd see how well the 5.56 NATO / .223 Rem actually does perform on larger game.

The new rifle (7.62) is the MK-14 or an improved M-14. They called it a designated marksman rifle (DMR) so they could get it into service and test it. It won't be long before it replaces the M-16 and your average troop can engage his foe at 600 yards like in the old days. What happens to all of those AR's when companies start marketing MK-14's to the public?
I'm sorry, but that's absolutely false. The USMC has never stopped qualifying at 500 meters even with the M16. The long distance terminal ballistic handicap of the 14.5" bbl M4 Carbine was solved several years with the introduction of the Mk 262 / Mk 262 Mod1 ammunition. Further, the M14 is not coming back into service. Those SEI rebuilt M14 DMRs were a temporary solution and they're being replaced by the KAC M110 for DMR issue in the big army, and the FN SCAR-H in some spec ops roles. 7.62 NATO is strictly used as a DMR, sniper, and GPMG cartridge. It is not coming back as a general issue rifle cartridge. Sorry to burst your bubble, but those are the facts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top