Could New Yorkers carry freely before the Sullivan Act?

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I used to live in the Syracuse area, and as I recall there wasn't ANYTHING "freely" about handguns in that state. You had to have a special permit from the state to even OWN one, which nearly required an act of God. And if you didn't have this permit, gun shops wouldn't waste their time even showing a handgun to you. AFAIK, CCW permits were even worse.

And the New York City area was a whole 'nother world.

Beautiful state, but horribly oppressive in my opinion. Had some good friends there and my wife is from there, but I don't miss it.
 
rondog said:
I used to live in the Syracuse area, and as I recall there wasn't ANYTHING "freely" about handguns in that state. You had to have a special permit from the state to even OWN one, which nearly required an act of God. And if you didn't have this permit, gun shops wouldn't waste their time even showing a handgun to you. AFAIK, CCW permits were even worse.

And the New York City area was a whole 'nother world.

Beautiful state, but horribly oppressive in my opinion. Had some good friends there and my wife is from there, but I don't miss it.
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I doubt you were of age before the Sullivan Act of 1911 was passed...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_Act

Since the law was the requiring of licenses for possession and carry, it seems that before its enactment, no such license was available, or required.
 
Since Sullivan was as crooked and totally corrupt as any politician we have ever had in this country, claims that his support of gun control were "heartfelt" and "concerned with saving lives" ring more than a little hollow. Criminal gangs he controlled used deadly violence all the time, against innocent people.

A more believable version of the tale is that a Republican poll watcher shot a Tammany Hall thug who was involved in the stuffing of ballot boxes and and who pulled a knife when challenged. "Big Tim" did not like such interference with his goons and rammed through a law to make sure only people who had his personal approval (and who paid off) could legally own or carry guns. From what I hear, things have not changed much in the Big Apple.

Jim
 
Jim K said:
"Big Tim" did not like such interference with his goons and rammed through a law to make sure only people who had his personal approval (and who paid off) could legally own or carry guns. From what I hear, things have not changed much in the Big Apple.

Jim
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You heard wrong. That stopped when they took the decision making out of the hands of precinct capts many years ago.
 
A lot of the impetus behind Sullivan was anti-immigrant sentiment. They didn't want "those people" to be armed. This is about an earlier bill, but the Times championed Sullivan as well.

CONCEALED PISTOLS

NY Times Editorial from January, 27, 1905

Among the best British traditions perpetuated and cherished in America is that of using nature's weapons in the act of self-defense. That it is sincerely cherished is shown in the recent introduction at Albany of a bill by Assemblyman Tompkins to amend the Penal Code of this State relative to the carrying of loaded firearms concealed about the person. The amending section reads as follows:

Sec. 411-A Any person other than a peace officer who shall in any public street, highway or place in any city in this State having a population of upward of 100,000 persons by the last State census have or carry concealed upon his person any loaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm, without theretofore, in the manner now provided by law, having been authorized to carry the same, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

Such a measure would prove corrective and salutary in a city filled with immigrants and evil communications, floating from the shores of Italy and Austria-Hungary. New York police reports frequently testify to the fact that the Italian and other south Continental gentry here are acquainted with the pocket pistol, and while drunk or merrymaking will use it quite as handily as the stiletto, and with more deadly effect. It is hoped that this treacherous and distinctly outlandish mode of settling disputes may not spread to corrupt the native good manners of the community. The case of a Columbia student who flourished and fired a pistol at his persecutors instead of using his "bare fist", as his presumably British-American descent would prescribe, is fresh in the public memory. The act now proposed and championed by Mr. Tompkins will diminish the number of homicides.
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"..to corrupt the native good manners of the community...." Well, heck, why do they even need a police force? With such "good manners" how could there be any crime?
 
Just generalizing: Gun control laws arose mostly after the Civil War with the Jim Crow laws. Not enforced against whites. Many people in places like NYC carried, but concealed carry was regarded as the socially acceptable and polite way to be armed. You can Google for "pocket pistols" and "ladies pistols" and see that there were numerous manufacturers. Remington had its little two-shot .41 rimfire derringer.
 
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