Could replacing a hammer solve a reliability issue?

[MrIzhevsk]

Hey guys,

A little while back I asked a question about why people install skeleton/delta hammers or anything aftermarket what have you...and the general consensus was pretty much because "it looks sooo cool!"

But, is it possible to fix a reliability issue? Now, I don't mean something like light strikes, but loading and ejection issues.

here's the story:
I have a Jericho RS .45acp. For the life of me I could not get this gun to run reliably, I experienced failure to load (bullet would get stuck in the hood of the barrel), Failure to eject (casing would jam between ejection port and hood of barrel) and sometimes just a flat out failure to chamber a round.

I replaced the magazine springs, the extractor, slide lock lever, and the recoil spring with a DPMS recoil spring assembly. Still not a 100% improvement. More like 75%, which it was about at before.

One thing I noticed is an uneven wear on the hammer, that is, the hunk of metal that contains the firing pin and actually interacts with the hammer to cock it, would rub more off to one side of the hammer, instead of making a flush, even contact. If I replaced the hammer with another, one that is possibly set such that the wear with the slide is an even one, could that resolve some of my reliability issues?

Honestly, I'll never carry the gun or use it for home defense, I just won't ever trust it, but it pains me to have whats such a good weapon collect dust because its too frustrating to use.

Here's a pic of what I have in mind, don't it look cool!?

 

[BCRider]

If the heel of the slide that cocks the hammer isn't rubbing evenly across the full face then something is wrong with either the hammer or the slide or firing pin cap. The choice between the slide itself or the firing pin cap depending on what sort of design the IWI uses. If it's true to the CZ pattern then it's a slide in cap.

If the hammer is misshapen then replacing it with another, stock or aftermarket, would fix the issue. If the cap is poorly shaped then you just need a new cap. There's also an outside chance that both are misshapen but in an "additive" manner.

The key here is that the cap's heel should ride across the full width of the hammer to cock it. If it's only on one side it could be producing too much drag which slows down the slide and that is what is causing your woes.

The "moral" of this story is that you need to identify the actual cause first before you replace anything.

Hey, when it's working right that's a great gun. It was #1 on my "first gun" list until I got to try a CZ Shadow. But either way the BE/Jericho is certainly no slouch even though it doesn't see a lot of time in the spotlight.

 

[MrIzhevsk]

^ Then this is a long drawn out moral! I've replaced everything else I can think of that would cause these sorts of problems.

 

[BCRider]

You found a problem with the hammer to heel contact which is over to one side. That's something. If it's really a small point contact instead of a line then it COULD be wiping the oil away and causing a high friction metal to metal drag line. It's unlikely but it's possible. Either way it's work identifying which is out of kilter and fixing that first.

One aspect which COULD cause this sort of thing is if the hammer pivot pin isn't alonged dead square in both directions across the frame. It would be work investigating that as well.

All in all unless there's some source of drag in how the hammer cocks I suspect your real issue with the FTL and FTE issues is related to other things. The jamming of the upcoming rounds into the upper hood could be the shaping of the magazine lips. A bit of a tweak from dropping them onto hard floors during matches or reloading practice can do that.

The FTE issues is often a too hard recoil spring. Shoot a few rounds towards the backstop and instead of looking at the sights look at the ejected brass. You want to see it arc out and away a good two feet. If it's a short weak arc of less than a foot or just dribbles out past your hands then your recoil spring is too heavy for the ammo you're shooting... or there's some source of drag in the system like the slide to frame isn't really smooth or your grip puts a thumb in contact with the slide which drags on it. Another sign of this sort of thing is if the slide doesn't lock back at the last shot consistently. Or it may be something as silly as you need to change the type of oil you're using. Try something gun specific if you're not using it already. If you use grease try oil instead. Or at least try using an even thinner smear of grease.

In any event the answer to your original question is "NO". Changing the hammer won't make the gun chamber and eject any better... unless the present hammer is sticking in some manner which causes the slide to not cycle correctly.

 

[GLOOB]

+1 on checking that the hammer is oriented correctly. Does it rotate over a machined pin, or a roll pin? Check that the pin is straight and smooth. Make sure the hammer cocks smoothly and easily with no drag. If it lines up right and moves freely, I don't see how a new hammer will solve this problem. The uneven wear should even out over time.

You have replaced a bunch of parts, but that doesn't mean you ruled out a problem there. The slide could have been machined such that it throws something off. Or the stock parts might be prone to certain failures to begin with.

Every malfunction needs to be examined for the cause.

I have a Jericho RS .45acp. For the life of me I could not get this gun to run reliably, I experienced failure to load (bullet would get stuck in the hood of the barrel), Failure to eject (casing would jam between ejection port and hood of barrel) and sometimes just a flat out failure to chamber a round.

Faiilure to eject casing and flat out failures to chamber a round both suggest short-cycling. This could be the hammer, maybe. Or perhaps the recoil spring just needs more breaking in.

The bullets jamming into the hood of the barrel is usually one of 2 things. An extractor that is too tight or rough will cause a nose up jam, because the rim of the cartridge gets caught on the extractor. Instead of slipping up into place, the nose goes up and the rim stays behind. Next time you have one, check to see if the extractor is catching the rim. You might also find more brass shavings in the firing pin hole than typical.

Or it could indicate a magazine problem. The front lip of the mag might be too high. Or the feel lips could be too loose in the front.

But short stroking could also increase the tendency for these high nose jams, because if the slide strips a bullet which isn't all the way up, the front lip of the mag can send the nose to the sky as it goes. So if the hammer IS dragging, it could be contributing to all these failures.

The one thing in common with all these problems is short-stroking. So if the hammer doesn't fix it, a lighter recoil spring surely couldn't hurt. Consciously firming up your grip might even help a bit. OTOH, even if these problem go away with a lighter spring, it still wouldn't hurt to take a look at the extractor and magazine. You might be able to improve these to the point where this is your go-to, most reliable gun.

 

[MrIzhevsk]

This is where my frustrations seem to set in. I have tried both grease and various oils, and I have tried a variety of ammo including hollow point ammo (winchester seemed to feed best, only one jam ) There doesn't seem to be much difference or a preference on ammo the gun likes.

Regarding magazines, I have three, two that came with the pistol from KBI Charles Daly, and one that I bought at a show that was packaged MRI, they are identical in every way, they even have the triangle with the T stamped in them from Tanfoglio. I replaced the springs in the two KBI magazines with springs that I got from Henning Wallgreen. I've done my best to isolate the problem magazine and the one or two that is good, but it's just so random. I haven't used the gun in some time because I don't want to waste any more money on ammo on an unreliable gun (and I bought a CZ to make me feel better ) but I remember instances where one range trip, the orange marked magazine would be perfect for the entirety of the session (100 rounds) and the other two would stink. Then the next time I would use it, it would jam up and one of the others would work. It sounds crazy I know.

As for the recoil spring, when I first installed it, it was slinging brass hard enough against the barriers next to me at an indoor range to dent the mouth of the casings. When I installed it, I got through maybe 100-150 rounds before I started getting the problems again.

For the extractor, I have not gotten the courage to try and file it down a bit, but I do keep the claw (not sure, the portion that actually grabs onto the rim of the casing.) very clean and free of gum and muck.

From what I can see from pictures I have previously taken, (the gun isn't with me) it is a roll pin. I've never taken it apart to see if it is crooked or malformed. Could replacing the roll pin help?

 

[GLOOB]

I'm surprised if it's really a roll pin holding the hammer. I have only one gun that uses this setup, and it costs 125 bucks and is made of pot metal, lol. If it really is a roll pin, then yes, it's quite possible for it to be crooked. Roll pins are almost always slightly curved. On my particular gun, I had an example with a badly curved pin, and this made the hammer way too stiff. I tried my best to straighten the pin and even sand it down, but I didn't have much success. Replacing it fixed the issue.

This gun, HP22A, is known for occasional failures of the hammer, where they break in half. I suspect it's due to this specific problem. When the roll pin is too curved, the hammer is under too much friction and stress.

Note: at first, I thought the hammer was hard to cock (compared to the other one I had) because the main spring must be too stiff. It didn't occur to me that it was the roll pin until after I'd misguided cut down the mainspring a coil, and the hammer was still stiff... and I started getting lightstrikes, too!

If your gun really has a roll pin and it's curved, I'd machine a solid pin myself. That's way too nice a gun to have a roll pin in the hammer.

 

[MrIzhevsk]

If your gun really has a roll pin and it's curved, I'd machine a solid pin myself. That's way too nice a gun to have a roll pin in the hammer.

I agree with you, but you tell me. I do recall that the pin that holds the extractor in is spring steel and not a roll pin, is that possible, or does it make sense rather? This gun is in many ways like the Tanfoglio witness series with a different shape really.

Here is a picture of said pin:

and here is one from the other side, this is from somebody elses pistol, but it is an identical model:

 

[BCRider]

That is definetly a roll pin. I'm surprised that they would use that.

Being a roll pin means that it's got an exposed edge on the outside surface. Given how the main spring and motion of the hammer works putting the seam to the range of "1 o'clock" position facing up and slightly to the rear seems to me like it'll result in the least drag off the exposed edge.

Changing it out with a solid pin would be nice but since they used a roll pin it means there's no way to retain the pin unless you do something like stake the frame to dimple some metal inwards to hold it in place. Not something that I'd like to do on any gun I care about. There's other options but they would involve drilling for a retention pin or equally "gunsmith'y" like ideas.

Gloob raised an excellent point about the extractor. One way to test this is to strip the gun down and slide an empty casing up into the case face seat in the frame. The hook of the extractor should hold it in place but not 100% firmly. The case should be slightly loose and hang down a touch from the top. But within some reasonable amount you should be able to shake it around a bit without the casing falling out. If it's firmly pinched into the seat of the slide with no slight give at all it could imply that the new round's rim is having some trouble seating itself under the hook of the extractor. Also check to see if the underside of the hook seems rather sharp and razor like. If it is a trip to a smith may just cure things.

Something else you can do while the gun is stripped down is to fill a magazine and lock it into place. Sight from the side to see if the rounds are sitting level or if there's some upward or downward cant to them. See how the rest of the mags compare. For the most part the rounds should sit dead level and at the same height in relation to the frame rails. If the mags all seem to present the rounds at various attitudes and depths then there's some room for experimenting with forming the lips to set the height and attitude.

You seem to put a lot of stock in the switching out of the magazine spring. But the spring is only a part of the magazine system. The shaping of the lips holding the top round is easily twice as important as having a proper rate magazine spring. It's the lips which control how the magazine holds the round so that it can slip up into the slide face smoothly and so it hits and rides the ramp in the optimum manner. Too high, too low or the wrong angle and things go to hell in a handcart fast. I know that for my match guns, which see a lot of magazine dropping onto all manner of surfaces, I've measured and recorded the round to frame rail height and cant using a caliper to within a couple of thousandths so I can check any magazines later which become problmatic. It really is that fussy.

As for short cycling it's my experience that most .45acp guns tend to chuck the brass at LEAST as far as a 9mm gun. Typically quite a bit farther. So a .45 which "only" chucks the brass out in a two foot arc could be seen as being a bit "tight" in the recoil spring. If so then this could indicate the same issue with short cycling that Gloob mentioned as well. The acid test for this is how consistently the gun slide locks at the last shot. As in you should be able to load one round only in the mag, load it and shoot and the slide locks back 20 out of 20 times. If it misses at all it suggests that you're a bit tight on the spring and need a softer spring. Or, in a pinch, you could cut one to maybe two full coils off the existing spring to reduce the amount of preload. It's not as good as getting the next softer spring but it can do for finding out if this is the trouble. But ONLY if you're not getting a consistent slide lock.