Could someone explain what a "target" gun is?

[miss lead]

I hope everyone had a nice weekend. I ran across a Chief's Special on Saturday, a nice little gun. The gentleman referred to it as a "target" gun. Could someone tell me what that means exactly? How does that differ from a non-target gun, and would a "target" model gun still be a decent self-defense unit?

For anyone who's interested, I finally tried out a K frame, model 15, which confirmed my decision that I really want a J frame. It's not that the K frame is too big for my hand, it was actually quite comfortable. I just like the J frame much better. Maybe there's no rational explanation other than it seems right.

Thanks all.

 

[BCCL]

To me "Target Gun" usually means something with adjustable sights and a 4" or longer barrel that's intended for paper target shooting or maybe some hunting.

Never heard anyone consider a J frame Chief's Special a target gun.

 

[chicharrones]

I always figure the base minimum requirement for a "target" handgun is a windage/elevation adjustable rear sight. That can be a just about any handgun provided it is reasonably accurate.

 

[MCgunner]

I would NOT describe a M36 as a "target gun". I don't know if there's a set definition, but look up Smith and Wesson M41 or perhaps M52. Those are specifically target guns, built for Bullseye target competition. The 36 is a concealed carry piece, designed for off duty or detectives in plain clothes, originally. It works well for the armed civilian. Now, he might be describing its accuracy being good, think of it as a metaphor, but it's no target gun in the literal sense.

Tried the SP101, yet?

 

[SaxonPig]

1. A pistol designed for serious, formal target shooting competition. Could mean a gun with a heavy barrel and finely adjustable sights for traditional "bullseye" matches or a tricked-out semi-auto for "combat" matches.

2. Any pistol with adjustable sights. This is a much more liberal, all-encompassing definition.

 

[cavman]

for Bullseye

The Smith and Wesson Model 41 .22 auto (5" or 7.5" barrels)
The Smith and Wesson revolver Model 14 .38 (and Model 15)

Ruger Mark II or III (.22 auto) with 5.5" or 6 7/8" barrels

1911 .45 ACP with a fitted barrel bushing

Pardini's and Hammerli's are target guns

I am also seeing Smith and Wesson revolver Model 625 .45s on the line now as well (N-frame)

All with adjustable sights and barrel lengths ~5"-6"

 

[miss lead]

To clarify, this is a model 60-4.

McGunner - thanks for asking (about the SP 101). I went to a gun shop on Friday and actually held one but did not shoot it. The gun felt really good - it seemed nice and substantial and seemed to have excellent balance. Its drawback for me is its modern look. I just keep going back to the classics. I know the aesthetics should be a secondary consideration, but for me it's really important that I love the way the gun looks. I tried to love it because I know it's a great gun, but I just couldn't get there.

 

[Guillermo]

I know the aesthetics should be a secondary consideration

ML, the "classics" are better guns so indulge yourself.

BTW, just to join the chorus, most "target" models have an adjustable rear sight and only available in longer (4 inch and above) barrel lengths.

(that is a broad, sweeping statement. Some target models have lighter triggers and heavy barrels but such is the exception in the types of guns that you are looking at)

 

[Sam1911]

M.L., you may have experienced a very common phenomenon -- that of a gun counter guy saying something largely inexplicable for who knows what purpose.

A Chief's Special is as MCgunner well described, a great little defensive revolver that has served many Cheifs, Detectives, and regular citizens alike. Not as large as a full-sized "duty" gun, but plenty adequate for the job.

The counter guy might have been insinuating that that particular gun is very accurate (with or without personal testing to establish the point) or he might have been pointing out that it has been fitted with adjustable sights (if it is?), or he might have been just making random gun-related conversation.

It is usually best not to think TOO hard about the things gun shop guys say.

 

[miss lead]

It is usually best not to think TOO hard about the things gun shop guys say

Heh! Good advice.

 

[Brian Williams]

Hey that 60-4 is a great gun, I have one and it is an occasional carry piece for me. It is very accurate and will do very well for a purse or belt gun. What price was on it.

 

[miss lead]

$500 but I think there was some wiggle room. Does that sound like a reasonable price? It's a 3" barrel.

 

[Brian Williams]

I got mine for $350 about 6 years ago and they haave gone up in price, if you can get close to $425 it would be good.

 

[Guillermo]

Calm down Miss Lead

The right gun is out there.

 

[miss lead]

Do I seem worked up about this? I'll bet that neeeevvvvvvvvvvver happens to you gents. This is a lot more fun than shopping for purses, I can tell you that.

 

[Guillermo]

actually I am waiting on the edge of my seat for a new toy of my own

it looks alot like this

hopefully in my hands by Wednesday



But I looked for it for months!

 

[jaybirdjtski]

This sold yesterday on Auction Arms. S&W 627-3, 8 shot 357. About 300 made. Very collectible. It fetched over $1700 and the guy got a deal!

 

[bhk]

There are some Model 60s labeled as 'Target' models by Smith and Wesson. They have 3-inch full-lugged barrels and adjustable sights. Was this the gun at the dealer?

I have one of these (and had a previous 36-6 in the same configuration that my daughter now owns). These are not really target guns per se, but they are significantly easier to shoot accurately than most j-frames. They handle and shoot much more like a k-frame than a snub-nose j-frame. I use mine both for concealed carry and for field carry. I have no problem hitting small game with it, something that would be tough to do with a snub-nose. These are the 'target' model j-frames, called so by the factory and by sportsman everywhere.

This is a photo of my daughter's 36-6 (hard chromed). My model 60 looks the same, although it is built on a magnum j-frame and is in .357.

 

[bob.a]

I seem to recall that Smith made some Chief's Specials with adjustable sights. They were marked Model 50. Hard to imagine a 2" barrel target pistol. Wouldn't mind having one in 3" though. I think 3" J-frames are ideal carry pistols.

 

[Guillermo]

It fetched over $1700 and the guy got a deal!

if you say so

There is not room in my gun safe for that

 

[miss lead]

They have 3-inch full-lugged barrels and adjustable sights. Was this the gun at the dealer?

Yes, this looks just about the same except for the grips.

Do I infer correctly from your post that there are different J frames - a magnum and something else? Just when I think I'm starting to get a handle on things....

 

[bhk]

Almost all J-frames are now made on 'magnum' frames. They made this move when they started chambering some of them in .357. The cylinder is slightly longer and the frame slightly beefier. Even the .38 special only guns (642,442,etc) are now made on the magnum frame size.

The 36-6 pictured in my previous post is an older non-magnum frame made before the switch. All of the original 36s are built on the non-magnum frame. I am not sure about the newer blued 'Classic' series Smith and Wesson is producing.

 

[gbw]

Is is confusing.

Earlier J-frames were all .38 only (or some lesser calibers like .32).

For the past few years the J-frame has been made slightly larger, and cylinders long enough to accomodate .357 magnums are fitted. I don't like these, .357 mag. is too much for me in the small guns.

So if you want a 'classic', look for one of the older models. (I'm not sure of the specific 'dash' models but someone here will know them.)

The 60-4 actually is a classic older version (3" lugged barrel, adjustable sights, stainless). It is .38 special only. I have one and like it very much as a wonderful range and hiking gun, but it's not the best choice for carry.

Mine is actually almost 'target' accurate, but I think that's a fluke. In true target guns the parts are all carefully matched and hand fitted for maximum accuracy. This is expensive and of no value for service guns.

The 60-4s are not too common and are somewhat sought after, so $500 may not be too bad if the gun is in excellent condition. But, if you like other versions better don't buy it.

It sounds like you'd be happier with a classic older 2" Model 36 or 42(no visible hammer) blue or nickel plated. Mine is an older nickel plated 36 I like very much, a flashy but very stylish revolver.

I still prefer the 'airweight' versions (15 oz. aluminum frame v. 20 oz. steel frames, but NOT the airLIGHTS, these are just too light even for me). I actually have a S&W M37 (nickel plated aluminum) if I need to carry a revolver.

But there's really no bad choice, to each his (her?) own.....good luck.

BTW - you can get the shiny flashy look in a M60 if that's your preference. I confess I like it for some guns. Stainless steel guns can be polished to a mirror shine quite easily. Maybe the best of both worlds, nickel plate looks with the low maintenance of stainless.

 

[shockwave]

Do I seem worked up about this? I'll bet that neeeevvvvvvvvvvver happens to you gents.

Never in a million years. Well, sometimes maybe.

In normal uses, "target" in reference to a handgun means a long barrel, so it would be strange to apply that to a J-frame. I really hope this isn't a case where a gun seller is like a car salesman, treating a woman customer as somebody to be given the ol' flim-flam.

Right now I'm in the middle of negotiating for a S&W 638 2.5" and I'm printing off Internet listings for the gun showing the general range of prices, as the shop I'm working with is pricing it too close to MSRP. Good luck with your haggling.

 

[miss lead]

Thanks for the explanations everybody. It helps.

Actually, I am after a 3" barrel on a J frame gun, full underlug. Or of course the Colt DS, same configuration (I know, dream on).

So... do I have this right? Both models 36 and 60 are J frame guns. All of the 36s are .38s but not all of the 60s are. The older ones are, but newer (not sure what constitutes "older" vs. "newer") are chambered for .357, so could should both .357 and .38 loads. The Chief's Special model 60-4 is one of the older ones and is a .38 only. I wish I could hurry up and find a gun so I could quit pestering everybody with these inane questions.