Snagglepuss
Member
What would be considered the quintissential Cowboy Gun? Pics of guns and holsters welcome. 
Cowboy Gun
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joab
Member
Uberti Cattleman in 44-40
Unless you're talking about competition, then it would be a Vaquero or clone in .38
Unless you're talking about competition, then it would be a Vaquero or clone in .38
StrikeEagle
Member
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Hmmmm, great question here!
I'd say you want a .45 Colt... I think that's the most traditional.
You're probably thinking the 4 5/8 inch barrel. That's the one that's cut even with the ejector rod. It's the typical 'gunfighter' length, IMO. But look at 4 5/8, 5.5 and 7.5. See which one matches the pictures you have in your mind the best.
Traditional brand is Colt. But those are wildly expensive and NOT the best. "Best" is the USFA assortment. Check 'em out:
http://www.usfirearms.com/
The other brands/models mentioned here are excellent as well. SAA's are all about history and fun. Get the one the pushes your button.
StrikeEagle
I'd say you want a .45 Colt... I think that's the most traditional.
You're probably thinking the 4 5/8 inch barrel. That's the one that's cut even with the ejector rod. It's the typical 'gunfighter' length, IMO. But look at 4 5/8, 5.5 and 7.5. See which one matches the pictures you have in your mind the best.
Traditional brand is Colt. But those are wildly expensive and NOT the best. "Best" is the USFA assortment. Check 'em out:
http://www.usfirearms.com/
The other brands/models mentioned here are excellent as well. SAA's are all about history and fun. Get the one the pushes your button.
StrikeEagle
My favorite is anything 4 5/8 in. I have a non-cowboy caliber 44 mag, but 4 5/8 in case-colored Vaquero. I like the way it looks and shoots.
Stainless is great for usage and wear, but the blued ones are nice.
Blackhawks with adjustable sights are very practical and useful, but do not look as cowboy as the fixed sight ones.
I picked the 44 mag because it was on sale for $350, the right size, the right color, and I could get ammo fast and cheap. I also have reloading dies for this caliber.
I have the 45 Colt, but I do not shoot those as often. My collection of cases and bullets are growing, so I can begin reloading once I get some dies.
I wish the Blackhawk single actions would come with and 8-shot 357 in the same frame 9like the Taurus 608 and SMith 627 in the N frames). I guess Bowen or someone like that would do a conversion.
I have an older rig for cowboy shooting where I bought on clearance for $130. It was a great price for a brand new rig with saddle leather and solid brassware. It happened to be in my waist size, and no one else bought it before. I also have an Ol West holster for the 4 5/8 with a small forward cant. I wear it routinely under a coat. It was also on sale for $25.
I have the 5 1/2 and 6 1/2 guns, but I do not carry those regularly. My Bisley 44 Mag Vaquero in 5 1/2 is very comfortable to shoot, but I wear it on a shoulder rig due to the exra barrel length.
I love my cowboy guns, and I carry mine fairly regularly.
Stainless is great for usage and wear, but the blued ones are nice.
Blackhawks with adjustable sights are very practical and useful, but do not look as cowboy as the fixed sight ones.
I picked the 44 mag because it was on sale for $350, the right size, the right color, and I could get ammo fast and cheap. I also have reloading dies for this caliber.
I have the 45 Colt, but I do not shoot those as often. My collection of cases and bullets are growing, so I can begin reloading once I get some dies.
I wish the Blackhawk single actions would come with and 8-shot 357 in the same frame 9like the Taurus 608 and SMith 627 in the N frames). I guess Bowen or someone like that would do a conversion.
I have an older rig for cowboy shooting where I bought on clearance for $130. It was a great price for a brand new rig with saddle leather and solid brassware. It happened to be in my waist size, and no one else bought it before. I also have an Ol West holster for the 4 5/8 with a small forward cant. I wear it routinely under a coat. It was also on sale for $25.
I have the 5 1/2 and 6 1/2 guns, but I do not carry those regularly. My Bisley 44 Mag Vaquero in 5 1/2 is very comfortable to shoot, but I wear it on a shoulder rig due to the exra barrel length.
I love my cowboy guns, and I carry mine fairly regularly.
dav
Member
Unfortunately, this is actually a matter of opinion, not historical fact.Snagglepuss said:
Most people would say the Colt SAA, but then 90% or more buy something else when it comes to actually owning and using a gun for cowboy action shooting.
Even the caliber is questionable. Turns out they used some wimpy loads back then, .32 and .36, that nobody wants to admit to now. So they say .45 LC, but that was not first or most popular.
Final answer? Quit caring which one is 'most accurate' for the period, and get what you like best now.
And I agree that USFA has some of the finest, but I own Ruger Vaqueros.
Snagglepuss
Member
Accuracy is not really a defining characteristic for me. Right now I own several handguns but the only revolver is a 686 which is far from a cowboy gun. As I have no knowledge in this catagory of pistol I was just asking the question to get opinions rolling. By quintessential I mean the one that most embodies the spirit of the cowboy gun, the caliber, the finish, the mechanics and so on. Thanks for the replies so far. Have had fun visiting different websites looking at your suggestions. Is there a cowboy type forum anyone knows of?
Kaylee
Member
Harve Curry
Member
Snagglepuss said:
http://www.cascity.com
If you don't all ready have a Single Action Army then get a Colt SAA or copy like a Ruger, or Italian made, then there's Tauras. Some of the best were German made copies by Saur, Hammereli was good.
Caliber; anything from 32's up to the 45's. Your pick.
Accuracy, all of them can be more accurate then most shooters can hold.
Grayrock
Member
For spirit/caliber etc. it HAS to be a Colt SAA in .45 Colt- no two ways about it. The prancing horse makes it "cowboy". That being said, I shoot Vaqueros in Cowboy Action Shooting (TM) competitions. I would love to have a pair of Colts, but can not justify the expense right now. The Rugers LOOK period, are stronger and safer and cost a lot less. I don't think the Colts are the best quality available, but if you want the "spirit of the game", go Colt. When I win that powerball lottery, I'm getting a pair of nickel plated engraved Colt SAA's in .45 Colt with the Mernickle holsters to match.
Grayrock
Member
For spirit/caliber etc. it HAS to be a Colt SAA in .45 Colt- no two ways about it. The prancing horse makes it "cowboy". That being said, I shoot Vaqueros in Cowboy Action Shooting (TM) competitions. I would love to have a pair of Colts, but can not justify the expense right now. The Rugers LOOK period, are stronger and safer and cost a lot less. I don't think the Colts are the best quality available, but if you want the "spirit of the game", go Colt. When I win that powerball lottery, I'm getting a pair of nickel plated engraved Colt SAA's in .45 Colt with the Mernickle holsters to match.
Grayrock
Member
Ooh ooh ooh- THIS is what I'm talkin' about!!!
http://photobucket.com/albums/v288/Owlhoot/New%20Engraved%20Colts/?action=view¤t=1BNewColts1aps.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v288/Owlhoot/New%20Engraved%20Colts/?action=view¤t=1BNewColts1aps.jpg
Father Knows Best
Member
dav said:
You're wrong about the calibers. Sure, there were small calibers available, but the Colt SAA was the most popular handgun on the frontier with the demise of the cap and ball. It's most popular chambering -- by far -- was .45 Colt. .44-40 (the "Frontier Six Shooter") was second. Those two calibers made up 75% of all SAA production during the first 30 years (the "Old West" period). A smattering of other calibers made up the remaining 25%.
Based on sales figures of the time, the two most popular calibers on the frontier - as well as elsewhere - were the .32 S&W and .38 S&W in later years, and the ,32 R.F in earlier ones. The idea that everyone carried a Colt Single Action or S&W .44 is a myth. Then as today, smaller pocket guns were by far more common. This however doesn't fit the Hollywood version of history, nor what is required in SASS.
SASS is a game, and a good one with a lot of fun involved, and I would be the last to knock it. But when it comes to handguns, the Colt Single Action Army (or reproductions of it more or less) is "the revolver." This includes the Ruger line of Vaquaro single actions, which are increasingly the most popular six-gun with new (as well as many older) shooters. The two most popular calibers are the .357 Magnum (never seen in the Old West as it came out in 1935, but competitors fire reduced-loaded .38 Specials in it because of less recoil and great accuracy.) The .38 Special dates form 1899 by the way - so much for western history). The next most popular caliber with those who aren't interested in the .38 is the .45 Colt, which originated in 1873 and is historically correct. So is the .44-40 which came out in the same year, but ammunition for the .44-40 is usually more expensive then that for a .45, and reloaders have found that case life is sometimes relatively short.
The best way to decide what equipment to use is to attend some matches in your area as an observer and see what the competitors are using - what's popular and what isn't, and why. It is seldom a mistake to duplicate what the more experienced competitors are using.
SASS is a game, and a good one with a lot of fun involved, and I would be the last to knock it. But when it comes to handguns, the Colt Single Action Army (or reproductions of it more or less) is "the revolver." This includes the Ruger line of Vaquaro single actions, which are increasingly the most popular six-gun with new (as well as many older) shooters. The two most popular calibers are the .357 Magnum (never seen in the Old West as it came out in 1935, but competitors fire reduced-loaded .38 Specials in it because of less recoil and great accuracy.) The .38 Special dates form 1899 by the way - so much for western history). The next most popular caliber with those who aren't interested in the .38 is the .45 Colt, which originated in 1873 and is historically correct. So is the .44-40 which came out in the same year, but ammunition for the .44-40 is usually more expensive then that for a .45, and reloaders have found that case life is sometimes relatively short.
The best way to decide what equipment to use is to attend some matches in your area as an observer and see what the competitors are using - what's popular and what isn't, and why. It is seldom a mistake to duplicate what the more experienced competitors are using.
joab
Member
Yes but the .38 Long Colt which the loads duplicate came out in 1875.
People in frontier towns may have carried diminutive guns but cowboys on the range did not unless they were used as hideouts. .38s 44s and 45s were the norm for cowboys and gunmen, which are the characters depicted in SASS scenarios
Cowboys, (the real kind that worked with cattle) often didn't own a handgun of any kind after the indian wars were over. In fact sometimes Ranch owners prohibited handguns being carried, especially during a roundup. On the other hand, these cowboys did spend their limited funds to buy a first-class rifle, which were thought of to be more important than a revolver. Of course when the indian or outlaw threats were high, large-caliber handguns were the rule rather then an exception, but the gun wasn't necessarily a Colt Single Action.
Outlaws and peace officers carried both large and small revolvers, but historically, after the middle-latter 1870's double action (so-called "self cockers") such as Colt's model 1877 and 1878 became very popular, as contempory photographs confirm. The same can be said about Smith & Wesson's .44 which first appeared in 1881. Gamblers, if they carried a gun at all - many didn't - tended toward small, concealable models for obvious reasons.
The .38 Long Colt cartridge originated in 1875, and was intended to be used in Colt's New Line of of Pocket, Police and House revolvers. It was commonly used in cap & ball to cartridge conversions, and particularly so by the U.S. Navy. It was never very popular in the Single Action Army and wasn't introduced in that revolver until 1886. It enjoyed some modest popularity after 1892 when the army adopted it as a service cartridge, but in a double-action/hand ejector revolver. It is noteworthy (but not particularly important) that SASS competitors don't use .38 Colt loads in their .357 Magnum revolvers, although they could do so.
While SASS is indeed fun, it is more Hollywood then historically driven, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Outlaws and peace officers carried both large and small revolvers, but historically, after the middle-latter 1870's double action (so-called "self cockers") such as Colt's model 1877 and 1878 became very popular, as contempory photographs confirm. The same can be said about Smith & Wesson's .44 which first appeared in 1881. Gamblers, if they carried a gun at all - many didn't - tended toward small, concealable models for obvious reasons.
The .38 Long Colt cartridge originated in 1875, and was intended to be used in Colt's New Line of of Pocket, Police and House revolvers. It was commonly used in cap & ball to cartridge conversions, and particularly so by the U.S. Navy. It was never very popular in the Single Action Army and wasn't introduced in that revolver until 1886. It enjoyed some modest popularity after 1892 when the army adopted it as a service cartridge, but in a double-action/hand ejector revolver. It is noteworthy (but not particularly important) that SASS competitors don't use .38 Colt loads in their .357 Magnum revolvers, although they could do so.
While SASS is indeed fun, it is more Hollywood then historically driven, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing.
joab
Member
Eventually I'm going to get into it
My character will be based on Festus
My character will be based on Festus
Snagglepuss
Member
Boy, I didn't know that asking this question would give me a history lesson. So goes the BENEFITS of belonging to a high quality forum. Thanks again and "learn me some more".
Grayrock - Those are two fine pieces of art. Reminds me of my lone ranger cap gun in real life. I guess guns are made to be used but I would have a hard time shooting those......HA kidding.
Grayrock - Those are two fine pieces of art. Reminds me of my lone ranger cap gun in real life. I guess guns are made to be used but I would have a hard time shooting those......HA kidding.
Consider that most of the early production 1873 SAA went to... the army and it's reasonable to follow that while Colts were desireable, not everyone had them.
Merwin Hulbert revolvers show up in a lot of old tintypes and 'pocket' model SW's in rimfire cals like .32 were popular in the Civil war. Cartridge conversions were widely available yet many people still packed the old cap 'n ball weapons.
You have to realize that a new Colt was a pricey weapon, compared to a Winchester rifle.
It's odd that so many 1877 and 1878 Colts are seldom found in 'mint' condition... people carried and USED them, from Mexico to Alaska and some were even produced in London.
SW "Scofield" was something few people had heard of before "Unforgiven."
I'd Imagine the most common handgun in the early to mid 1870's was still a Colt 1851 Navy, 1860 Army or equivalent Rebel copy.
The gun that won the west?
Single shot shotguns and buffalo rifles... the army would GIVE away ammunition.
My idea of quintessential Cowboy guns?
Colt 1878 New Frontier Six Shooter in .45 Colt, worn cross draw. An 1878 Colt hammer double shotgun in 10 ga. Nickel .38 Lightning in a hide-out rig. Winchester 1876 in .45-75 or .50-95. (Why haul around a short range carbine on the open plains?)
Merwin Hulbert revolvers show up in a lot of old tintypes and 'pocket' model SW's in rimfire cals like .32 were popular in the Civil war. Cartridge conversions were widely available yet many people still packed the old cap 'n ball weapons.
You have to realize that a new Colt was a pricey weapon, compared to a Winchester rifle.
It's odd that so many 1877 and 1878 Colts are seldom found in 'mint' condition... people carried and USED them, from Mexico to Alaska and some were even produced in London.
SW "Scofield" was something few people had heard of before "Unforgiven."
I'd Imagine the most common handgun in the early to mid 1870's was still a Colt 1851 Navy, 1860 Army or equivalent Rebel copy.
The gun that won the west?
Single shot shotguns and buffalo rifles... the army would GIVE away ammunition.
My idea of quintessential Cowboy guns?
Colt 1878 New Frontier Six Shooter in .45 Colt, worn cross draw. An 1878 Colt hammer double shotgun in 10 ga. Nickel .38 Lightning in a hide-out rig. Winchester 1876 in .45-75 or .50-95. (Why haul around a short range carbine on the open plains?)
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Let's see. We have a horse in the corral about 50 feet away, and someplace around here I still have an old pair of boots and a hat.
I guess the quint-essential cowboy gun is the one that goes out the door with me. Usually a Security Six.
Kind of makes me wish I had kept one of those old cap gun holsters with the sparkly colored fake jewels. The fake ivory grips with the ruby-eyed steer were sort of over the top, though.
I guess the quint-essential cowboy gun is the one that goes out the door with me. Usually a Security Six.
Kind of makes me wish I had kept one of those old cap gun holsters with the sparkly colored fake jewels. The fake ivory grips with the ruby-eyed steer were sort of over the top, though.
ewb45acp
Member
Snagglepuss said:Pics of guns and holsters welcome.
The Ruger may not be truely authentic, but it sure is pretty.
kjeff50cal
Member
You all have forgotten a couple calibers (or just one) that was popular then as it seems is now. What I'm talking about is the .40/.41 calibers. Starting with the gamblers favorite the .41 Rem. Rimfire then there is the .38/40 (actually a .40 caliber) and then there is the .41 Colt designed for the Colt Thunderer DA Revolver (reputed to be William Boney's favorite revolver).
kjeff50cal
kjeff50cal
Harve Curry
Member
Alot of handguns carried by working cowboys were what they could afford at $20 to $25 per month, so alot of what we now consider Saturday Night Specials of the era probably saw alot of saddle time like H&R, Hopkins&Allen, American, and a host of others who's name I cannot recall at this moment. They were light, stayed out of the way during work, and you could fit it in a chap or coat pocket. Most of the leather did not survive as it was thrown away when it was to worn to be useful anymore. Now the leather commands higher prices then some guns.
After the Indian Wars (1886) were officially over didn't make things any safer from rengades or criminals. Can you imagine any man in remote wide open country like New Mexico, Arizona, west Texas, Montana, Wyoming, riding around without a firearm from the 1886 through the 1920's?
Billy the Kid carried his pals Colt SAA 44WCF and the Winchester SRC 44WCF that he got from his pal Charles Bowdre after he was killed. Likely he carried a backup 1877 Colt revolver but no picture or weapon survives to prove it.
After the Indian Wars (1886) were officially over didn't make things any safer from rengades or criminals. Can you imagine any man in remote wide open country like New Mexico, Arizona, west Texas, Montana, Wyoming, riding around without a firearm from the 1886 through the 1920's?
Billy the Kid carried his pals Colt SAA 44WCF and the Winchester SRC 44WCF that he got from his pal Charles Bowdre after he was killed. Likely he carried a backup 1877 Colt revolver but no picture or weapon survives to prove it.
Sport45
Member
He really wasn't a cowboy, but at the turn of the century my grandpa had a Colt in .32-20. Nice looking handgun...
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