Crashing Community/Police Gun Buy Backs

[damien]

OK, assuming a gun buy back is taking place in a city and state where the non-dealer transfer of guns is completely legal, why not crash the gun buy back? By that I mean, stand outside the building where the gun buyback is taking place with a sign that says "I buy used guns in good condition - get at least $50 more from me than the cops." or something similar. If it isn't worth it, let them go ahead and take it in. If it is nice, make a deal that gets them more money and you a very good deal. Also, the guy buyback people get irked and you get in the paper, if that is your thing.

Has anyone ever given this a try?

 

[springmom]

I doubt it. Gun buybacks tend to happen in places that are fairly restrictive, and I cannot imagine a scenario in which they're doing a buy back but would allow what you're saying. Besides, once you "set up shop" on a sidewalk, they would (probably successfully) argue that you are setting up as a DEALER, and just try being a dealer without a FFL01.

Don't think I'd take a chance at a long stay at Club Fed for this.

Springmom

 

[RP88]

I'm sure the police will find something to arrest you or threaten to arrest you with. A few that come to mind (even if on technicalities) are trespassing, unlicensed business practices, etc. etc. etc.

they can also harass you and search you and try to see if you're improperly securing or storing the guns you do buy as well.

I wouldn't do it, at least not in front of them. Have a good lawyer in mind.

 

[bannockburn]

damien

As Springmom said, probably not a good idea. If not on the FFL charge, then something along the lines of soliciting without the proper permits, operating a business without the proper permits, interfering with police/city business, attepting to do business in a restricted non-commercial area, etc. I'm sure they could think up any number of ordinance violations on something like that.

 

[damien]

IBesides, once you "set up shop" on a sidewalk, they would (probably successfully) argue that you are setting up as a DEALER, and just try being a dealer without a FFL01.

Given that you haven't sold even a single gun at that point, I would like to see how they could successfully argue this point. I think they would get themselves successfully laughed out of court. Anyway, how did the ATF show up so quickly? You would be dealing with local cops, they don't have any clue about the federal statutes.

I'm sure the police will find something to arrest you or threaten to arrest you with. A few that come to mind (even if on technicalities) are trespassing, unlicensed business practices, etc. etc. etc.

they can also harass you and search you and try to see if you're improperly securing or storing the guns you do buy as well.

The police can always harass. You can always have a couple of guys 10 yards away with video cameras. Hell, you might be able to get a news crew. I didn't mean to imply do this yourself.

Trespassing? I didn't say I was going to crash the actual church or police station, just stand outside on the public way. This is not a problem.

They are going to arrest you on "unlicensed business practices"? OK, get a freaking street vendor license or similar, if one exists.

I don't think there is too much to worry about here on arrests if this is set up properly. At least you have no more to be worried about arrest than they have to be worried about a civil rights lawsuit. Arrests are not convictions. And I am not saying do it alone, you would want this to be a GOA action or something similar where you have carefully researched the laws, have the media available when it happpens, etc.

 

[damien]

As Springmom said, probably not a good idea. If not on the FFL charge, then something along the lines of soliciting without the proper permits, operating a business without the proper permits, interfering with police/city business, attepting to do business in a restricted non-commercial area, etc. I'm sure they could think up any number of ordinance violations on something like that.

I am still not convinced on the FFL angle. On the others, those sounds like fineable offenses, if proven at trial. Should someone be worried?

 

[Flintlock Tom]

How about just passing out a flier or card with your number and:
"Let me make you an offer before you accept $50 for your gun?"

If I were to do this I might even print a small copy of my FFL (C&R) on the back.

 

[bnkrazy]

I have often wanted to do something similar. In VA face to face sales are allowed so I don't think they'd really be able to stop you. They would probably try to pull a trespassing charge out of their bag of tricks, but I'd probably simply walk the line and hand out a business card like mentioned above if I saw something interesting.

I've also thought about running an ad in the paper along the lines of "Get rid of your unused/unwanted handguns, rifles or shotguns." I doubt it would bring many respondents but you never know where the widow with her late husband's collection sitting in the closet is...

 

[NG VI]

I'd love to do that but luckily Maine isn't a state where that sort of nonsense (gun 'buybacks') would fly. we don't really have the same sort of gang issues that most areas tha use those measures do.

 

[xsquidgator]

Even if you could find a legal way to not get hassled, is it likely you'd see anything brought in that you'd want to make an offer on?

 

[ilbob]

Besides, once you "set up shop" on a sidewalk, they would (probably successfully) argue that you are setting up as a DEALER, and just try being a dealer without a FFL01.

Not many states would consider you a dealer simply for making private purchases. They might have some issues if you later sold them in private transactions.

A few states have restrictions on buying guns in private transactions.

In Illinois the waiting period would apply, even in a private transaction. Don't know about other states.

In some cases you might well be in violation of various laws requiring firearms be encased, unless you were willing to buy without opening the gun case (assuming it was encased).

You might also get stuck with a stolen gun, but that is probably not real common.

 

[damien]

In Illinois the waiting period would apply, even in a private transaction

Ilbob, I am almost certain there is no waiting period on a private transaction in Illinois. The additional Illinois requirement is to make a record of the transaction that includes "the date of the transfer, the description, serial number, or other information identifying the firearm if no serial number is available; and, if the transfer was completed within this State, the transferee's Firearms Owner's Identification Card number" and keep that record for 10 years (I transcribe from the back of my FOID card).

There is no mention of a waiting period and I am almost certain none exists. The waiting period only applies to retail sales.

EDIT: Ilbob has proven me wrong on this, the waiting period applies to dealer and private sales. For some reason they don't put this on the FOID card even though they put a pretty good summary of the other requirements of a private transfer.

 

[damien]

Even if you could find a legal way to not get hassled, is it likely you'd see anything brought in that you'd want to make an offer on?

If EVEN ONE antique or otherwise servicable firearm is saved, ISN'T IT WORTH IT?

 

[another okie]

I've read of folks doing this. The police usually invent some reason to run them off, though sometimes it works for a while.

 

[ilbob]

There is no mention of a waiting period and I am almost certain none exists. The waiting period only applies to retail sales.

Illinois law does not exempt private transactions from the waiting period. Since it has been mostly ignored in such transactions, many people believe private transactions are exempt.

Something like the requirement to call in private transactions that occur at a gun show.

 

[bogie]

Suggestion:

If you are a licensed DEALER, you may want to hand out fliers offering a free appraisal and "secure handling by a legitimate dealer to military and police."

 

[Eric F]

I did this once, a near by city was doing it and I only saw 2 people with anything I thought I wanted. I offered 3 times the amount they were going to get in cash but was turned down becaust they were not sure of the legality of selling. I stood around for about 2 hours. The key to doing this is not to be too high key looking around for the right purchase. just be cool and it will turn out ok.

 

[damien]

Illinois law does not exempt private transactions from the waiting period. Since it has been mostly ignored in such transactions, many people believe private transactions are exempt.

Ilbob, you are completely correct. I am wrong. I found several references to this, including this authoritative one from ISP:

http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

Does Illinois have a waiting period for firearm purchases and does it apply to private sales?

Yes. Illinois law requires withholding the delivery of a concealable weapon (i.e. a handgun) for at least 72 hours and a rifle, shotgun, or other long gun for at least 24 hours. This applies for gun dealers and private sales.

You are right, this is not generally known or obeyed. I have broken this one before myself. They should print this on the FOID card!

Of course, no one will obey it. It is unenforceable since no records of sale versus delivery date and time are required and there is no call to the ISP to verify the FOID which gives a start time for the waiting period for dealers (the start time can be a little bit earlier in practice, but it can't be that far off). Still, it is the law and my idea for crashing gun buybacks would run afoul of Illinois law.

 

[bogie]

IMHO, best way to do it would be as a dealer. If you're not a dealer, make friends at your local gun shop.

AND, unless you have a street vendor license, etc., etc., refrain from doing business on the sidewalk. If you see something, and the person nibbles, offer them the free appraisal sheet, and tell them that they'll definitely recoup their gas/taxi money over and above the guy buyback bit. I mean, seriously - if you pay $150 for a Colt SAA, both parties will likely be smiling...

 

[bnkrazy]

bogie,

The legality of this action would be highly dependent on your state/local laws. In VA, there's nothing prohibiting me or anyone else from making a private sale. And, in VA, a public sidewalk is just as good as any spot to make the transaction.

Like I said before though, they will most likely try and intimidate you into leaving if they catch you shopping, but I don't know of any way they can legally prevent you from making the sale if you're on public property (again, in VA). If they position the buyback line on private property, then you'd be out of luck.

 

[hso]

Demonstration permit for nearby location

Business cards for local FFL

Signs telling them they can get more at the FFL than with the police

 

[Templar223]

I wouldn't recommend it.

You would be arrested here in IL if you did that. I suspect most other departments would take a dim view of you doing that too.

Furthermore, for the most part, you would be wasting your time. Most of the guns turned in are junk. Junk defined as non-shooting or not safe to shoot. I've been to a couple and there weren't a half-dozen klunkers I'd be caught dead with out of 100+ guns. Nothing nice.

Damien, you would be better off finding all the junk in the corners of gunsmiths shops and junkers your friends have and take those in and make some money that way instead of risking arrest and incarceration.

Search my handle for threads started and look for Chicago Gun Best Buy and you can read my story of how I turned in guns in Chicago to benefit our gun club to the tune of $1600-1700. We spent the money on ammunition and guns for kids!

John

 

[Prof. A. Wickwire]

What about offering free appraisals? Not offering to buy, just telling them the market value of their item. Have a selection of cards for local licensed dealers if they are interested.

You are not engaging in a business. No money is changing hands. Where would the problem be in that case? I'm not even sure that a street vendor license would be required since you are not buying or selling anything.

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire

 

[Soybomb]

Realistically what do you think your odds are of spending all day there and getting the person with a jewel of a gun to give it to you? I just don't think you'll want whats there.

 

[neededausername]

My best friend works for the state in the ballistics lab. She's told me stories of most of the guns that come through her lab in the buyback stuff. You wouldn't want it anyway. It's mainly cheap damaged stuff. I was asking her opinion about what my wife and I should buy, and she said she had never fired a Ruger or S&W even though her daily job involves firing buyback guns.