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CRKT Heiho

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by MtnCreek, Sep 24, 2013.

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  1. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    Any thoughts on the CRKT Heiho or other CRKT knives?

    Thanks.
     
  2. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    We have several threads on CRKT's knives that praise their value and durability.

    What exactly do you mean when you ask, "Any thoughts"?
     
  3. SuedePflow

    SuedePflow Member

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    My EDC is a CRKT M-21 with aluminum handle. I'm not too demanding with any of my knives, but it is by far my favorite folder of my collection.

    The Heiho looks decent, but I don't have any experience with one. I know I personally do not prefer the weight and rigididy of most polymer handle folding knives, so I'd probably shy away from the Heiho unless I could handle it first.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  4. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    Sorry, I must have misspelled something in the search. I'll give it another shot.

    I was wondering about the general quality of their knives and this particular knife if anyone has experience with it.

    I carry a Gerber w/ the assisted opening. It's not very durable; I know this because I have worn one out (broke spring). The blade is typical Gerber (sharpens quickly, but won't hold an edge very well).

    Just looking to upgrade to a better knife that operates in a similar way, but without spending a lot on it.

    Thanks.

    Edit: I found lots of CRKT threads. I had entered "Heiho" in the search and all it netted was kong-fu related.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  5. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    The Heiho is a G-10 over a steel frame, not polymer.

    CRKT knives in general are durable, value priced knives. The company likes using custom knife designers/makers and is always interested in innovative mechanisms. They're not a high end shop, but they do a very good job with almost everything they do. They're also pretty ethical in their dealings.

    The Heiho is a folding fighter so it isn't designed as an EDC user.
     
  6. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    I'm pretty ignorant on knives. Can you tell me a little more about this?

    I typically carry two knives. A assisted open knife and a stockman (3 blade folder). The single blade gets most of the use, but the stockmen is used for more oddball stuff (cutting a can, LD screwdriver or general whittlin).

    Thanks.
     
  7. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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  8. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Hopefully I can add some helpful advice, but I'm going to ask a few more questions to better understand your wants.

    First, you want an assisted opener. Is that a strict must have, or would a manual knife with a really fast opening flipper be acceptable?

    Do you have a preference on country of origin? If it came down to edge holding vs. blade toughness, or edge holding vs. how robust the knife is, what would take priority? Where do opening mechanism and country of origin fit on your priority list?
     
  9. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    hso can you elaborate on their "ethics"? What comes into play when you are talking about a knife company and ethics. Wages, material, where and how material is bought and used, are those some what your talking about? I would imagine a company like COLD STEEL is pretty low on "ethics", but maybe I'm wrong.
     
  10. SuedePflow

    SuedePflow Member

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    Good call. I was confusing polymers and composites. I have a CRKT that is Zytel over steel, and I'm less fond of it for reasons stated above. The only composite I have is a fixed blade Micarta (which I assume is very similar to G10), and it feels solid.
     
  11. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    Assisted open is up there on the list, but not really a must have. I have (and have had) knives w/ just a thumb flipper and opening one handed is not a problem. I also have a spyderco (gift, I didn't pay for it) w/ a big loop and I can open it fine, but it's release is on the backspring, so closing it one handed for Me is a no-go. I remember a few years ago shooting w/ my trigger finger wrapped in paper towels & tape and I no longer carry that knife.

    Like all things, I'd like to buy American, but that typically come with a higher price tag. I'll sharpen a knife (pocket, kitchen, ...) a couple times a week, just to unwind in the evening. It's relaxing, but it's a little disappointing to need to use a med stone and not just be able to hit it with a hard whetrock when it was just sharpened a couple weeks ago. I'd say durability (well made, will last) would be more important than robustness (not using it as a prybar).

    Thanks.
     
  12. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    MtnCreek, you are in luck. Knifeworks currently has the Kershaw Leek on special for $35 + shipping. That's a made in USA knife with a 3" blade of Sandvik 14C28N steel. 14C28N is a great steel, and is a version of 13C26 / AEB-L razor blade steel that's been enhanced for improved performance as a knife steel. The knife has thumb studs and a flipper, and it's assisted opening. Unlike Gerber's coil spring assist, the Kershaw SpeedSafe assist uses a much more durable torsion bar. The Leek is a steel frame lock as well, so it's both durable and easy to close one handed. Somehow Kershaw keeps the weight down at 3.0 oz. I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better overall value, that I think fits all of your wants.
     
  13. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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  14. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    I also forgot to mention that if you want something in a more traditional, all purpose blade shape, you may want to look at the Buck Vantage series. They're manual openers with both an oval thumb hole, and a flipper. The flipper opens them as fast as any auto or assisted opener I've ever used.

    The $25 - $30 select level has 420HC steel, which isn't spectacular, but the Paul Bos heat treat lets it perform better than it should, so it has decent edge holding. The avid level steps the price up to about $40, but upgrades the steel Sandvik 13C26, also with HT by Bos. If $60 is in the budget then you can get the Vantage Pro with a CPM-S30V blade, once again with Bos heat treat.

    Getting back to the Buck Vantage, those knives are US made liner locks with various handle materials over stainless steel liners. I'm actually getting ready to post a Vantage review to YouTube, so you caught me at a good time. I'll also note that for a $10 to $20 price increase on each steel level (select, avid, and pro) you can upgrade to the Vantage Force line. The biggest upgrade on the force line is the full length back spacer that makes them more rigid. If you're more concerned with general cutting than with prying tasks, the various levels of the standard Vantage line will serve you quite well.

    Just to be thorough, here's a little more steel info: S30V is a true super steel and it has great edge retention. On knives I use for things like rope and cord cutting I don't polish the edge out because S30V takes a toothy edge that bites in, and it holds that edge forever. For slicers I'll polish the edge out on S30V blades, and again it holds the edge really well, even in abrasive materials like cardboard. If you go with S30V, I strongly recommend diamond sharpeners because the abrasion resistance of this steel almost requires diamond to sharpen it. 13C26 and 14C28N are easy to sharpen on ceramic or natural stone. Because those two steels have very fine grain structure from their origins as a razor blade steel they have the stability to take very acute edges and hold them rather well. They're also pretty easy to polish out to scary sharp levels with a little time and effort.
     
  15. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, it appears I was writing my long winded response while you ordered. I think you'll really like the Leek. Maybe just file the Buck info away for future reference when the knife bug bites again, and you need something else moderately priced to get your fix.
     
  16. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    Thanks for the info anyway. Your info on the steel is over my head, but I will say I have a couple old (thinking 70's or early 80's) Buck knives that have great steel. They're a real pain to sharpen, but they'll easily shave under their own weight and hold an edge well.

    Thanks.
     
  17. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Sorry, that doesn't make sense to me. The handle is steel on the knife you're referring to. It simply has Zytel (BTW, that's a composite also, but glass fiber reinforced nylon instead of glass fiber and epoxy in G10 or phenolic resin and linen/canvas/cloth of micarta) scales on that steel frame. If the steel in the handle is too thin it might make the handle feel like it flexes a bit since the Zytel isn't as rigid as G10 or Micarta, but as long as the lock engages and it doesn't release with hard prying it is safe.
     
  18. SuedePflow

    SuedePflow Member

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    What part of "Zytel over steel" doesn't make sense?

    If we're going to over analyze; CRKT coniders the steel that you refer to to be the steel liner InterFrame. These pieces of said InterFrame measure in at a whopping .040" thick. Wrapped in a handle made of glass-filled nylon (polymer composite, plastic - you split the hairs) which measures in at .089". I can use two fingers and pinch the handle/body of the knife and it deflects inward up to .040" (your pinch may vary). Care to guess how much a aluminum/steel constructed CRKT deflects? With a nylon handle (as apposed to aluminum), there's noticiably less rigidity between blade and frame. I'm not claiming it to be unsafe at all. All I said was that I don't personally prefer the weight and rigidity of this type of construction and I base this upon personal experience. Make sense?
     
  19. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    I agree - Zytel over steel is really an indicator Zytel can't cut it. G10 is used alone as scale material, along with micarta, but a lot of makers add a slip of steel for threads. Fasteners need them and it's an expedient method to screw one together.

    On the other hand, Spyderco quit making unreinforced Zytel folders because they do squirm around, and after weeks of use will even take a set under the pressure of being clipped in the pocket. Integral clips molded in Zytel lose their tension, and the scales collapse onto the blade with enough friction to trap it.

    I've brought it up over the years - Zytel is great way to make a lot of handles inexpensively, but it has it's disadvantages, too. Make it too thin for it's length and the makers add steel liners to help it out.

    As for the Heiho, it's been long recommended by dwarves marching off to work for decades. :evil:
     
  20. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I carried original Spydercos for years without any of the problems you've described. Did you have these problems with early Spydercos that you were carrying?
     
  21. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    Yes, I still have the knives, but again, Spyderco quit making them.

    The same FRN was used in toolboxes for pickup trucks - which are no longer on the market. In the day you could see them with a concrete block under them propping it up. Zytel - FRN - doesn't have the strength to handle serious structural use.

    If few experienced the problem, I would say fine, glad you didn't. Nonetheless, Spyderco did make the change. Metal clip, metal liners.

    Sitting at a desk with the knife clipped in my jeans compressed the scales enough they took a set, and the clip became too loose to hang onto the pocket. After a few weeks in a drawer out of rotation, it would lessen and the material would spring back to it's molded memory. A few cycles of that and I gave up on it.

    The fiberglass in FRN can withstand a lot, but go too far and it will distort. Its a common comment in materials webpages. The amount and extent can't be predicted, but standardized ASTM testing does give a figure and it does happen.
     
  22. amd6547

    amd6547 Member

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    Never had that issue with the Spyderco Endura I carried for several years...eventually though, the clip got caught on a truck seat belt as I was jumping down and it snapped off. By then, Spyderco went to the metal clip and replaced that knife for me.
    I was disappointed by this thread, as I am interested in the ckrt Heiho knife...I like the blade shape. They are on eBay for less than $40.
     
  23. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Amd, what questions do you have about the Heiho?
     
  24. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    I don't have the Heiho, but I have the James Williams folder that came before it...the Hissatsu.

    The first thing I noticed is that the Assisted opening is very stiff...I sent the first one back and the second one was better ( I love Amazon)...it is still stiffer than I'd prefer (after much lube and working the action) and I'm seriously thinking of removing the assist. The safety system does make it very secure when open, but is a major pain to release when closing.

    Even though the handle doesn't look ergo, it is surprisingly very comfortable...in both the fencing or icepick grip.

    The blade geometry, with it's elongated point, really does lean more toward thrusting than cutting laterally
     
  25. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    That's the reason Spyderco stated they abandoned the Zytel clip and that's the very problem I did experience. Where the metal clip would bend, but be replaced, the molded clips would snap and there weren't any options from Spyderco. OTOH, enterprising souls ground off the remains of the clips and screwed metal clips from other companies in place. Spyderco eventually learned the lesson and abandoned the molded clip in favor of a metal one.
     
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